Called Thermador when my very expensive microwave-convection ovens quit. Two company names provided, one out of business, other doesnt do Thermador anymore. Find one company an hour away, and they have one person who might get out in the next 2-4 weeks to see what the problem is. Asked customer service for service manual. They refuse to provide them. I CANNOT recommend Thermador to anyone. An appliance you cannot get service on is a waste of money.

Our drip pan for our indoor grill started bubbling & the paint chipped off. My first impression with the customer service rep was great. Then I received the phone call that Thermador refused to replace the drip pan after owning the stove top/oven barely after 1 year. What a huge disappointment; you spend so much money thinking the product will be high quality and in return they refuse to own up to a defect and provide good customer service. All of our appliances in our new remodeled kitchen are Thermador; I am afraid of what will not work next and what they wont replace!

We purchased the top of the line model stove and have had issues with the baking for 6 months. When repairman finally got it working, 3 visits, it turns out the motherboard had failed. He agreed that this part should not be failing on a $10,000 stove. Calling Thermador was of no help at all. Their warranty motto of we stand behind our products is a complete sham. Very dissatisfied. Go with Wolf instead. We say that coz just by looking at the consumer affairs complaints for Thermador, you cant even compare almost 400 complaints to a handful for Wolf. We wish we would have not chosen Thermador!

Replacement part of oven sensor no longer available which makes the double ovens non-operational when it senses a problem that usually does not exist. All other parts of the oven work and it is poor customer service to leave a total replacement as the only option. Built-in oven replacements amount to thousands of dollars. I cannot in good conscience recommend a company that said they are only liable for the parts for 7 yrs. This is Thermador using Government Regulations to provide poor customer satisfaction and quality control.

We purchased Thermador thinking it was a high-end model. After 10 years, over the last 6 months our Cooktop and Convection oven (Model SC302TS) have gone bad. In both cases we have been told the replacement parts are no longer available. I would definitely not recommend Thermador products. When I spoke to their customer support, this seemed to be consistent with their strategy/philosophy, to not carry replacement parts for greater than 5-10 years.

We remodeled our kitchen and purchased all new expensive Thermador appliances in mid-2013. In mid November, 2014 the door on our dishwasher slammed down, as the hinge/spring/cable had broken. Both my husband and I were hit with the door, in trying to close the dishwasher door. Both times, resulted in our being bruised by the door!We called Thermador Customer Service (800)735-4328 for repair. We were told that the springs were on Quality Alert. Although, we had never heard from Thermador to advise us of this problem and had sent in our Product Registrations. It takes 3 weeks for repair service. The technician was unable to pull the dishwasher out and told us to call our contractor. We thought he may have been inexperienced and arranged for another technician. 3 weeks later, another technician comes out and he is also unable to remove the dishwasher.Another 3 weeks later, we now have our contractor come out to remove the dishwasher and he had absolutely no problem. The dishwasher has a rubber siding on each side of the unit and with a putty knife, he was able to easily slide the dishwasher out. Something a skilled and trained Thermador technician should be aware of and to handle. We live in the San Francisco Bay Area and there is an extreme shortage of qualified technicians, with service calls all seeming to be 3 weeks.It has now been over 2 months later since the problem was reported. Again, not our problem we created, but a Thermador Quality Alert problem! Today the 3rd technician has scheduled to be at our home between 12-4pm and I receive a call from him that he wont be coming because Thermador Parts Center in North Carolina, didnt send all the needed parts! We now have to wait again and since the dishwasher is pulled out, we cant even use it. I called Thermador again to report the problem and was seeking a corporate contact to advise them, but theres no corporate contact name or e-mail address and customer service was going to e-mail them (haha). Buyer beware and be truly informed of the products youre buying and their service (or lack of) records.

Purchased new for $7500 and has been nothing but a nightmare since. Bake element blew up 3 days after delivery. Control board shorted out 2 weeks after that. All of those 2 problems were manufactures warranted. Bake element has consistently burned out at least once every year since. All costing $128.00 each time. Less than 5 months ago the 2 fuses blew along with the bake element and the control board. That cost over $1200. Turned on the oven yesterday and the bake element blew up again with a loud electrical shorting noise. This time, the back side of the range caught on fire. I have burn damage to my hardwood flooring and wet plaster wall behind the stove. If I had been some regular consumer that did not have the knowledge on how to kill the power to the stove, it would have burned my house down. The stove is now a total loss. All of the wiring has burned up, along with considerable smoke damage to my home. I am thoroughly disgusted with Thermador. I plan to take civil action against Bosch, and file a class action lawsuit. This is a problem that has the potential to kill someone. Bosch and Thermador are fully aware of the problem and have chose to ignore it for many years. They will no longer ignore me. Please feel to free to respond to my posting if you desire to join the class action lawsuit.

We are in the middle of installing a new kitchen with all new Thermador appliances. We bought Miele for the dishwasher instead of the free Thermador. At this point, we wish we went all Miele for everything and here is why. Nothing has been used yet since we are awaiting countertops and water but we have electricity to the appliances. Right out of the box, one of the Thermador ovens has a defective main circuit board. The drawer microwave has a defective control panel. What is Thermadors response? Call a repair shop. Which we did, waited a week, tech shows up and yup its defective. Now we are waiting 4 weeks for the parts and then a week later, maybe they will repair our brand-new, never used, just installed Thermador appliances.Thermador is a brand name owned and managed by the same folks that make Bosch which is sold at Home Depot, etc. Thermador has splashy ads in high-end magazines, etc. but it is all hype. The product quality and service is abysmal. We were flabbergasted that Thermador would not let our kitchen designer/dealer replace the defective units. If you are considering premium appliances we would recommend Miele. Check out the information online before you buy. Miele is a private, family-owned company that is uncompromising in their focus on quality. They cost more than Thermador but they are worth it. We have three Miele dishwashers at other properties. Previously, we had a Thermador cooktop downdraft that the blower motor died after two years.

Our 13 year old Thermador oven relay panel caught on fire. After extinguishing the flames, I contacted a service company and Thermador. Thermador said replacement parts are made for ten years and when they are all sold, Thermador cannot supply parts for its broken ovens. I do not want to purchase another Thermador oven knowing after ten years parts are no longer made.

In 2013 I bought my dream kitchen appliances, paying close to $18,000.00 with a $2,000.00 install. I have had nothing but multiple problems with them. First, I called Thermador for a repairman. They gave me a number to a company that had closed their doors. It took several calls before I could find another repair dealer that was actually open. Repairs became constant. Microwave: Interlock switch replace, adjusted, again and again. It now blows my fuse. Freezer/Fridge: Freezer went out losing all food. Double oven: Replaced element and control panel and had to have it calibrated. Downdraft Vent Hood: Replaced motor (cost more than it is worth). Dishwasher: Grinding and error codes, leak, replaced sump. Some of these problems occurred over and over, costing us an amazing sum because Thermador only stands behind their products for two years. They claimed I only had called them for the microwave; but I registered all my products with them and called them multiple times, as did the repair dealer. They will do nothing to help make it right. Also, the company I bought them from, Orson Gygi in Utah, will not do anything either. They just feel sorry for you...tough luck. Don’t pay for expensive ‘dream’ kitchen appliances. You will have a great looking kitchen that is non-functional and cost you a lot of money. **The only appliance I have not had problems with is the magnetic cooktop that is glass. While I have a small chip in it, it is super easy to clean and so far, so good. It is beautiful. The ONLY product I am impressed with.

Dont buy Thermador ranges. A COMPLETE WASTE OF MONEY AND A LOT OF IT. Weve had the ProGrand garbage for 1 year. Excluding previous problems, the most recent is the oven lights no longer function. Called Thermador for assistance. They stated that while still under warranty, the oven bulbs (2 of them) are a routine consumer maintenance issue and a tech would not be assigned. So, I spent $40 for a bulb. Despite I specified that no lights function in the oven, Thermador sent me only 1 light. With much difficulty, I replaced the defective bulb in the lower right of the oven. Powered the oven back up, AND NOTHING. Removed the new bulb and placed it into the upper left socket. After powering back up, AND NOTHING.Frankly, Ive never had to replace an oven bulb in a 10 year old oven, you know, the far cheaper commonly found brand names of Kenmore, Amana, Frigidaire or other LOW END ovens. But for $10,000 you can buy a Pro Grand and have all kinds of fun calling for support, technicians, and an oven that is pure, bonafide garbage. Get this, in preheating mode, the oven will on occasion never reach set point. Rebooting the power supply seems to help. The racks are a dream too. They are extremely difficult to interchange to a new height setting. And they DONT CARE.On a prior occasion speaking with Thermador support, I asked if I could convey my dissatisfaction with their quality group. Specifically, they have some serious quality control issues. I was told that was not possible. This oven, and the lack of Thermadors concern is all the reason a consumer needs to know that this product is garbage and very expensive at that, relatively to conventional offerings. STAY AWAY, DONT BUY A THERMADOR OVEN.

After purchasing our Thermador Range, Model # PRD366GHU in 2011, the oven has stopped working on multiple occasions. Only to finally find out, from the most recent service tech, that there is a design flaw in the range and the heat of the oven when its in self-clean mode, trips a high-temp cut off, leaving the oven inoperable until the cut off is reset. So after spending all of the money that this high-end brand charges, youd expect some sort of resolution from Thermador customer support... not so fast.They have started a file, not approved reimbursement of the service calls and I continue to chase them after being promised callbacks. This seems to be a serious defect in this range, with multiple complaints regarding this very same issue. There appears to be no work around, other than not using the self-clean mode, REALLY? Consumers be aware. Thermador needs to respond and address this issue with their consumers. Ive totally lost all brand loyalty.

I guess Im lucky. I havent had a disaster with our convection double oven. We bought ours, used about 6 years ago, from a house that was being gutted and remodeled. It was a 95 model and I was thrilled to be getting an updated, and convection oven. Now, Im nervous about keeping it and having something disastrous happen from all of these other posts. I was only trying to find a replacement knob and was frustrated at not being able to find one since they are no longer manufactured. Our oven was very difficult to install. My husband and father were able to cut the holes into the attic and vent it properly, but it has never cooked evenly, even using convection, and it always takes 30-45 minutes longer to cook anything like casseroles or meatloaf, anything denser.

We purchased both of these units. Thought we would not have to worry about buying appliances for awhile...wrong!! The panel on the oven, even if you are cooking, turns off... starts beeping with a code f24. Thermador is fully aware of this problem. There is also a recall. If you try using the self-clean feature, the oven can catch fire. I did an online search for this oven. There is a recall -- An 800 number is listed on line for the owner to call. This is to set up a repairman to come out. This site claims they are open to take callers 24/7. I have heard a recorded message that has said, Thank you for calling, a customer service person will be with you shortly. I have heard this message 178 times as of this minute. As for the propane cook top, with the built in BBQ, the flames are so low, I stopped using the cook top, called out a repairman. He said, No way can I increase the flame size. Cost to me -- over $9,000.00, PLUS INSTALLATION. So, if you still want to purchase anything Thermador, you have a problem...it will be on you. You have been warned.

I love this Thermador refrigerator; we have previously owned GE, which I did like as much. I like the double door top section versus side by side and the GE did not hold up as well. However, the freezer could be larger. Nevertheless, the unit is easy to clean and easy to store items.

Thermador Commercial Grade Stove with 6 Burner Gas Range - We have had nothing but problems with this unit since we bought it many years ago. I originally spent around $8,000 for the unit with the overhead hood and fan. Since then I have invested a minimum of another $6,000 in what appears to be bi-annual service calls. The main issues are: 1. Thermador does NOT support their units. They push you to factory authorized service shops. Okay not a big deal - makes sense. 2. My local service rep knows less about the unit than I do (sad statement). The typical response is something on the order of I think its the ???? part. I have to order one - cant guarantee it will fix the problem until I install it. That will be $150 plus $400 for the parts - see you when the part comes in. 3. I have to go to the dealer in the next region and pay him extra travel time to get decent service. Typically he is so busy servicing other Thermador units that he cant get to me for 3-4 weeks. 4. I have replaced the same gas burner control 5 times - thats a $1,000 in parts only. They have now discontinued the part (dont know why, they were making a killing selling them). So the next time it fails I cant use the stove. 5. My most recent event deals with gas leaks at the burners. Im told they no longer make replacements. They dont even know if it can be upgraded. The service shop wont check to see if it is something simple like a valve stem nut or tightening or packing issue. They told me to call Thermador to see what can be done. Nice receptionist at Thermador but no information - cant get to the engineering department to ask intelligent questions.6. Its a shame because the electric oven has worked flawlessly.I think a class action lawsuit is a great idea.

First a little background. We own 2 homes and in them we have 3 Bosch dishwashers, 2 Thermador Cooktops and Thermador oven. All purchased new within the last 5 years. So with our one cooktop [$1,530 purchase price] one burner wasnt working and the burner cap had fallen down into the unit. We contacted the local AUTHORIZED Thermador repair center. They came out and said the end caps had fused on due to heat and the cooktop couldnt be taken off to do the repair. They said it would have be drilled out and a new cooktop installed. We then contacted where we had purchased it and they said this was a common problem with Thermador and suggested we contact them. We contacted Thermador and opened a claim. They asked us to get an invoice showing we purchased the cooktop new, verification of the diagnosis by their authorized repair center, and the new cooktop invoice and installation receipt.While I was gathering all of those invoices we received a call back saying they would not do anything to assist us because we hadnt contacted them to see if it could be repaired. In fact we had and contacted their repair center. We hadnt contacted while the problem had occurred. In fact we had and opened the claim the day the repair was being done. We even spoke with a supervisor [Vanessa] who simply said they do not help in these cases. If this is how they treat a customer who had purchased what we had [and all high end products] I cant imagine how they treat everyone else. There will be no Bosch or Thermador going back into our home.

Dual Oven Now has broken down 3 times since 2001 - that is a long time but we rarely use the oven! They cannot help in anyway. Shame on them - let’s start a class action lawsuit!!!!

4 year old ovens. We have been having problems baking and cooking things in the ovens. Seemed inconsistent. Supposedly quality product but finally clued in that we should check the temperature. So we checked set to 350. Oven heats and beeps and says its 350 but its only 275. Do same 400. Beeps goes to 350. Not consistent and gauge lies. Called Thermador. Said they would send a tech. No mention of a fee until 1 week wait and 10 minutes before arrival. Pay $120 plus $60/15 minutes. Turns out not even the first 5 minutes was included... Cheesy. So he determined the ovens are fine as they turn on. Called Thermador. They say they will eventually creep to a higher temperature. Nothing they can do. Useless ovens as they heat to different temperatures and different settings and the gauges are not correct and seems they are cheating on when the temperature is at its set level. Never thought we would have this issue with what we thought was a quality brand and am very disappointed with their lack of wanting to take any responsibility. Absolutely will never buy a Thermador product again and will enjoy telling others to avoid it.

We have purchased a full range of new Thermador appliances from Howard’s. We were instructed to make full payment for everything in July to ensure we get all our appliances in time for installation by end August. We are still waiting for our oven and microwave which we are told is on backorder for end October. They blame it on Thermador slow production. Why take our money if they can’t deliver? Calling Thermador to complain is the most horrific experience to go through. They keep you on hold for more than an hour and then cut you off. Twice!!! We have made a terrible mistake going with this brand, I can just imagine how their after sales experience is going to be if this is still pre-installation?!

Spent over $27,125.00 on Thermador appliances. 48 range knobs were very loose and oven temp was not working. It was on 350 but the oven would only slightly warm. Got a new thermostat knob yet the oven does not heat up accurately. Smaller oven to this day still does not work properly. Bake means broil!! We can never get a correct temp. And for the first 5 mins it broils no matter what temp you are on. Fridge/freezer side by side was delivered with broken wheels. Ice machine has broken twice - Went months without ice. Drawers have broken. Now our dishwasher on the outside panel has RUSTED. How does stainless steel rust? The whole front is brown. We sent pics in and complained. Oh but you only have 30 days on cosmetics. Buy this cleaner... Customer Service is disgraceful. They dont care at all - I want a Thermador sales rep in my house NOW! Shame on you Thermador. You have no customer service loyalty. You took my money and wont help anyone by the looks of things, not just me. Be warned. Dont buy Thermador, I am sick over this...

The product works as expected. I have not had any issues or problems with the product since purchase. Its easy to use and operate, and has all the features you need in a range. It simple to use and efficient. I am extremely happy with the overall value. I was able to purchase at an amazing price. I actually spent less than I had budgeted for, which made me very happy. It looks great, works great. I am extremely happy with the appearance of the product. Considering I was able to get it at an amazing price, it still looks modern and stylish. It looks a lot more expensive than it actually was and it matches my other appliances, and looks awesome in my kitchen. The size of the range is perfect. Big enough that I can fit larger items in the stove and cook multiple sides on the range top. But its not so bulky that it looks obnoxious. It fits perfectly in the designated area.

We are now two months without a working freezer. I cannot stress enough how bad our experience has been. My wife is on the phone nearly everyday with customer service reps, but nothing gets done. They have sent the same incompetent repair people four times to no avail. They cancel appointments and reschedule without informing us. The corporate headquarters are in Germany, so there is no one else to talk to. At the same time, they have wanted to charge us $1,500 in labor costs. Can you imagine paying $1,500 for a job not done? I might add we have seven Thermador appliances in our kitchen! I would not recommend Thermador to anyone.Updated on 08/01/2016: We have now entered our fourth month without a freezer. It is very clear to us that Thermadors game plan is to frustrate the customer so that he/she will eventually give up. To recapsulate: we had repairmen out four or five times unable to fix the problem. On four occasions, the company cancelled the appointment without informing us and we had to reschedule. This caused additional delays. Without exaggerating, I would say my wife has been on the phone with customer service more than 30 times.Now they have offered us a new freezer at a discount, but will not provide any kind of installation or delivery into the house; nor will they remove the old, non-working freezer. The installers they recommend refuse to remove the old unit for insurance reasons. They also refuse to bring the new unit into the house from the curb. So here we are: it will cost us nearly the price of the freezer to have the new one installed if we could find someone to do it.My wife is in tears with frustration and anger. We have not been able to speak with anyone outside of customer service. It is a German company with apparently no executives here. I want to restate that our unit remains under warranty. I cant think of a worse example of customer service in my 55 years. Next step: New York State attorney general.

Microwave wave generator broke for no apparent reason after 3 years of moderate to low use. It cannot be fixed so the microwave unit is worthless now. According to Thermador there is no way to replace just the microwave. What?????? So they want me to spend another $6,500 to replace the whole unit????? Total BS. I will never buy another thing from Thermador even again. This is pure extortion.Just FYI - you can buy the current built-in microwave ($900) alone and rig it to fit in the space of the old microwave in the tower. The faceplate (another $350) is different and were still working on getting to look as good as the original, but at least we dont have a big unfinished hole in the wall over the oven. It still cost us $1,400 total by the time we were done which is also a huge amount just for a microwave. The whole experience was total crap. Never again.

It's a perfect size!! You can hide it if you want and it don't take a lot of space! It doesn't make a sound and I love the design. The colour is black. It make my kitchen the best. The performance is the best! IT never stop working and it is always cold. It doesn't drop any water. It's easy to clean. It's a lot of space so it can have much in it! The products appearance is great. It look great and it fits the kitchen. Never been more satisfy in my life. It makes my kitchen whole! I can recommend it to other people. It makes my day and I can't believe I didn't do this earlier. My kitchen had improved to the best since I bought it!

We remodeled our kitchen and chose a Thermador stove. Four gas burners, an electric griddle in the middle and the oven. From the start there was a terrible odor like wires burning. The griddle never worked well. A couple months later nothing works except the gas burners!! Have had 5 visits from the appliance repair company in our area and 2 parts replaced, actually 3 as the first one didnt work. Very Very Very slow responses to our problem from this company. Wish we would have purchased a Wolf. Its almost time for snow in MN and the grill outside will not be as convenient. DO NOT PURCHASE THERMADOR, my opinion!

I have a double wall oven (SCD302ZS) that is a piece of junk. I bought this thing brand new and paid a substantial amount for it. We have nothing but problems; the control panel has been replaced three times (at $300 per panel) and it still doesnt work. You cant read the numbers on it (i.e., the clock, the temperature). If you set the panel flush on the wall like its supposed to be, it doesnt work so you have to leave the panel hanging off the wall about 1/4 in order for the buttons to work. The elements have been replaced once, but the bottom oven still wont work. Today, the convection fan and light will come on in both the upper and bottom ovens but it wont heat up. Piece of junk! Dont bother calling Thermador, they will do nothing. We fought with them over the control panels, wrote letters to the headquarters and got nowhere. They dont care. Do not buy Thermador. I have one more brand new control panel for this piece of junk. If anyone is interested in buying it, Ill sell it for less than it cost me.

Im on my 3rd Thermador full package in my 3rd house. Same pkg 3 times w/ some upgrades: Pro Harmony range, Pro fridge, Top of the line Sapphire dishwasher, microwave drawer, hood. $25k+. The 1st pkg was good. The 2nd pkg had issues w/ the range. Spark units were intermittently working. Repaired, worked fine. Dishwasher recalled electrical shocks or leaks. Dont remember. Microwave/dishwasher made by Bosch worked well.Now 3rd pkg. Fridge auto door assist mostly doesnt work. Replaced parts-still doesnt work. Gave up. The range is THE WORST! Ive had 12 repair calls.. 4 of 6 burners are blasting like blow torches since day 1. Theyre super loud. The repairman said tech support told him Its supposed to be like that. I appealed because my last one didnt do that. Thermador told me to convince the boss to help even tho she agreed that theres something wrong with it. This is ridiculous! After replacing almost every part in the range w/ 12 service calls. Countless phone calls! 4 burners still blast like blowtorches. I memorized the model # PRG366, $6300. Replaced regulator twice. Gas company checked pressure twice. I need a replacement, but Thermador isnt helping. The PRG366 at my last house on the same street didnt do this.

We purchased a high end Thermador Dishwasher 3 years and 10 months ago. We had a Whirlpool dishwasher that lasted about 12 years, which we replaced with a nice KitchenAid that lasted about 7 years. We then decided to upgrade to a high end Dishwasher in December of 2015. We purchased a Thermador Stainless Steel Dishwasher because we were told it was a much higher quality machine than the Whirlpool or KitchenAid and it would outlast them all. It lasted only 3 years and 10 months before the heating coil quit working last week. Now it only washes with cold water and grease or butter stays on the silverware and plates. I called our local repair service and they said to contact Thermador because many companies will go ahead and cover repairs within a couple years of the warranty expiration. I called Thermador and they will not cover the repair diagnostic visit nor the parts if it is the heat coil, which is what the error code says that it is. I asked the representative to ask the supervisor again and he said we would have to pay for the first repair visit and he may consider covering 50% of the part ($54) only. I was shocked that the Thermador quit working only after 3 years 10 months of light use by only 2 people (1/3 of the time of the Whirlpool that had heavier use at that time) and then that Thermador wouldnt cover the complete repair even when asked nicely twice. I wanted to make sure others were aware and warned before they pay extra for a Thermador Dishwasher that may only last a couple years.

I have a refrigerator and freezer combo, everything works fine but there is a clicking noise that recently started that my dog is reacting to. It happens twice a day for about 30 minutes and there is one click about every 5 minutes, seems like it is coming from the bottom. Had a repairman to the house, said everything is fine and I cant diagnose it since I dont hear it and of course it happened again the second he left. I dont care but my dog freaks out every time this happens. Anyone out there have any clue what this could be and how to stop it? No warning lights or error messages at all. Thanks!

I have 6 burner Thermador range and called for repairs for two burners, oven door and broiler. They said that they ordered the parts and made appt for repairs a couple of weeks later. I took the day off and the 1st visit was just to see the range. Then I had to take another day off for the real repairs and when they came, somehow after they finished another two burners did not work. No explanation. I was told I was responsible financially. 3rd visit and day taken off they came with the wrong parts. I called to complain and have them accommodate my time so that I dont take time off, in addition not be responsible for the two extra burners because it was the techs fault, and they refused both.

As with others, we spent a lot of money on this over/under oven. Looks nice but the internal design is awful. Its been 4 years now and we have had to replace the control boards 3 times already... and it died again a week ago. There is NO support for Thermador appliances in the Dallas area. Parts cost as much as the original unit almost if you can find them. I have replaced the faulty boards 3 times so far, but Im too tired to deal with this anymore. The analog & digital boards run about $600... 3 sets are enough for a new oven. Its a giant rip-off. Where is the quality design & service... missing totally. Were going to purchase a new oven now and it wont be Thermador. In 50 years, I have never experienced such poor design and support. I cant believe Thermador is still in business!

We installed a 36 gas range in Feb. 2014. We have been remodeling our home for the past 2 1/2 yrs. and finally moved in a month ago. We have already had to have a repair service come out twice and he informed me we would become good friends. The range will not turn down low enough to simmer and the constant on & off of the 2 simmer burners is annoying. I dont know why we didnt look at reviews somewhere besides the thermador site. Silly us. The good news is that we have only one more repair to go and the lemon law kicks in. Both repairs were 2 different issues so well see what happens next. Anyway, dont be like us, DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST. So far Thermador has been nice to work with, well see if that continues.

Thermador double oven ME302JS, Refrigerator T36BB810SS - We purchased a suite of appliances including a fridge, range top, double oven, and dishwasher. The double ovens function just fine. However they buzz very, very loudly. Service has been to our house four times to either diagnose or attempt a repair to no avail. The service techs have been pleasant to work with and I appreciate their efforts as they have expressed genuine frustration. They have also expressed frustration with Bosch as they havent been helpful to find a solution.The fridge suffers from a slow ice maker. After 24 hrs, the bin is only about two inches deep of ice. The motor was replaced, no success. Bosch told the techs to lower the temp from zero to -4. That didnt work either. The techs have asked for further help from a Bosch area rep on both issues but they havent been forthcoming. Ive also sought help from the store who sold us the appliances. They forwarded my video of the noise to Bosch personnel, but they havent responded either. My patience has run out. If Bosch was responsive and helpful with a solution, this review would be more positive.

I purchased a 48 dual fuel Thermador range on July 20th 2016. It is now September 22nd and it still does not work. The first problem after setting up making connections and checking for gas leaks I found the third valve from the left had a gas leak at the main manifold. So the process of repair begins. What a mess.I call the authorized service facility four times trying to communicate with the repair technician so he would be able to order parts prior to traveling 110 mile to look at problem then return waiting 7-10 shipping days, two weeks, to get the part then make a return trip.After the fourth call I was told I had to call between 8:00 and 8:30 to be able to talk with the repairman. FINE! So I call the next day and explain where the leak is. He orders parts. After two and a half weeks he makes the trip. Upon removal and disassembly he sees, Yep I was correct. Then he opens box at job site. I remind you Im a 110 miles from the service station. So WRONG PART! Back to plan B.I chew on them and they promise to expedite the correct part and open the box prior to leaving the shop. I receive a call after one and a half weeks. They have the part and the box was opened and its correct. I am scheduled for the following Tuesday. So Monday arrives and I receive a call stating my parts will be on Thursday and Im scheduled for the following Tuesday. NO NO NO! Im scheduled for tomorrow. Nothing can be done no part!The serviceman arrives a week late and makes the repair. Before he leaves we have troubles with the two XLO burners on the two outsides of the stove top. He says I have a power problem and it was up to me to fix. Im an electrician and told him I didnt believe that. He returns to the shop. I pull the range back out and test. NO power problem! I try the small left-hand oven and I get ERROR TEMP PROBE, call some 1-800 number so I do. Yep Im in need of service. So back to the service station I go. Ive received a call stating the part is in. However the serviceman is on vacation until October 2nd and Im scheduled for the 4th.Ive tried several calls direct to Thermador. The last call I was told I would receive a call back on what they plan to do about this problem. This is the fourth day and no return call. I just want this thing out of my house and Im done with it! Outside of an attorney Im not sure what I am able to do. Im going to call consumer reports next. DONT ever buy one of these! Terrible quality control and even worse service network!

Spent a lot of money on a built in ref/freezer from Thermador. Now that summer is here I have come to learn the ice maker only makes between 100-125 ice cubes/24hr. I find myself running to buy more ice as everyone wants ice in their summer drinks. This was never an issue with the Whirlpool freezer I basically wore out after 20 years. ALWAYS had plenty of ice as the maker would make ice when the lever was down signaling low ice. If I had known this I probably would have bought something else... cheaper worked well. I called customer service and they said that this was the feature and nothing more could be done.

Cleaned dishes well but difficult to load. Was told racks were designed for European size dishes! Middle rack had to move as a unit either up or down, couldnt tilt it to accommodate dinner plates below on one side and tall glasses on opposite side of middle rack.

We have a Duel Fuel Thermador range. We bought it about 4 years ago. But due to construction, we have only been using it for a little over three years. At a minimum, we have replaced two circuit boards, two fan motors in the hood and most recently the boiler coil has caught on fire and appears to have partially melted. My three-year old was standing next to the oven. If I had not been in the kitchen to turn it off and pulled her away, it could have been a disaster. I have called and asked for this unit to be removed from my home.

When we remodeled our kitchen a few years ago, we purchased all new appliances from the Thermador/Bosch... We have really enjoyed the big fridge, the oven and microwave...the dishwasher has typical Bosch problems, including a sticking soap dispenser door and fast build up of clogging in the arms...but, its really quiet and great when its working properly. The glass cooktop blew its control module, and took some time and expense to have Thermador fix it... They brought the wrong replacement unit first, and only got the right one when we pointed out their errors and pointed them to the correct unit... It cost about half the price of the unit to fix...so, not so good on repairs. Overall, the appliances are lovely, quite pricey, and not nearly so reliable as one would like.

We purchased a new Thermador range 1 1/2 yrs ago and have had serious problems from the very first time we used it. The major problem is Thermador has a Help number to call but it is staffed by many young girls who know NOTHING about the range. I asked over and over again to speak with a tech to describe the problems and it was not allowed. (My husband and daughter are Engineers.) One of these Help girls actually told me she did not think 2 hrs to warm an oven was excessive and also there is no reason why this range would not last us 4 or 5 years!The oven would not warm up beyond 100 degrees and I ruined many meals. The repairman finally came and had to replace a couple of parts. He had to replace the computer again (which is located under the griddle and on top of the oven/broiler). Common sense tells me that is not good. Six months later problems again, the computer had to be replaced a second time along with many other parts. This week when we tried to self-clean the oven for the first time the mechanism worked for about 30 minutes and stopped. The repairman came again. Cant find anything wrong, didnt fix the problem.For the $11,000 range I would not even think of purchasing a Thermador product again. As I said the biggest problem with the company is when the oven would not work and there were 12 people in my dining room waiting for a Christmas Brunch there was no one to call who knew anything about anything (morons answering the phone)! It is extremely important to have a Help number with a competent tech person on the other end every day all day because youll need it and Thermador doesnt have it!!!The CEOs name is not to be found anywhere so no letters to write either. This unit has too many functions operated by the computer which is located in an area between a HOT oven and a HOT griddle. A computer that does not work because of being excessive heat bound. Fighting a faulty computer in a $10,440 oven while trying to make dinner isnt worth it. My advice buy another brand without computers.

Bought all products (wall oven, range, refrigerator) from Best Buy. Sale items packaged together. Biggest mistake of my life. Fridge did not work from get go. Got no response from either company until I hit their web pages and blasted them. Now, less than four years later, ice maker does not work. Over $500 to fix with a one year warranty. I do not need $500 worth of ice for one year. Wall oven: less than four years old. Close to $600 to replace heating board, again with only one year warranty. Range: sold to me not explaining it was for a center island. Didnt work. Shut down completely when turned on. Had to pull away from wall to get it to work. Ive seen several complaints similar to mine with products from Best Buy. I think we should start a class action lawsuit.

We purchased a Thermador double oven and had it installed the day after Thanksgiving. Seemed ok for the first few weeks but then the bottom oven stopped working. Reset the circuit breaker and the bottom oven turned back on. Went to rotisserie a prime rib on Christmas Eve, rotisserie wouldn’t turn. Ended up using the roast option. Called the appliance store where we bought the oven and Thermador to get a technician to come out. While waiting on parts the upper steamer oven stopped working completely. Resetting the circuit breaker didn’t help. We finally got the bottom oven fixed a couple weeks ago but the technician didn’t know anything about the upper oven problem. So now we wait until the parts arrive for the upper oven. Four months and $8000 worth of disappointment.

We have purchased a house with 5-year old all Thermador top of the line appliances. The refrigerator had a chronic problem with the ice and water dispenser leaking and not working adequately on any level. I called Thermador, and they recommended their local factory certified technician. He has made one repair with no results. The second repair involved replacing the door on the dispensers, as well as the optical sensors, with no change in results. I called Thermador and received a rude and uncooperative attendant, who refused to transfer me to a supervisor or give me information as to how to contact the service manager. I say, if you are in the luxury item market, you need to have that level of customer service. I think either a class action suit or a social media storm should get Thermador’s attention. Also, remember to research a company service record before purchasing anything.

I purchased my Thermador range in August 2013, I also purchase an extended warranty because it was so expensive $10k+. There was a problem since day 1, they sent me technician after technician after technician and still I cant cook for my family. The range never worked correctly and each technician has changed parts and still nothing. My extended warranty only has 1 company that can service a Thermador appliance and they cant fix it. What is the use to buy something thats supposed to be top of the line if it doesnt work and there isnt a lot of repair companies that are Certified to fix it - because its a top of the line appliance.Dont buy Thermador!!! My neighbor has a cheap range and is always cooking... I didnt read reviews before I purchased my range, I thought I was buying the best of the best. Hopefully my review will save another family from the hell Ive been through.

36 pro range dual fuel 6 burner stainless - In the last 4 years we had 2 very serious situations with regards to Thermador ovens. The first incident was in a former home of ours where we decided to use the self-clean mode which we have had a lot experience with other brands in how to use a self-clean mode. After about 25 minutes the glass exploded sending glass throughout our kitchen. Had we not been at home, the oven would have continued to operate with the high risk of a fire. We moved to a new condo which had another Thermador oven. We put the oven on to preheat and again after 25 minutes a fire started in our oven caused by the heat sensor incorrectly reading the temperature. Thermadors response to this leaves us with the impression that they dont care about issues with their ovens even if it means that a dangerous situation could occur.

Thermador oven would not ignite. So I called Thermador Los Angeles to schedule a tech visit. The earliest they could come was 10 days later. Technician diagnosed the problem but did not have the part. 4 days later on 2nd visit he could not find the part and told me his company did not order it. 2 weeks later they told me to expect 3rd visit from same Technician. After waiting past schedule hours I decided to call Tech myself. Unfortunately poor guy felt bad because he did not have the part even for 3rd visit about 40 day after initiated service call. After I called company to complain I was told that the back ordered part is expected to arrive on April 1st. This would 3 month and no one told me about back order.Finally after talking with someone in charge I was promised a call back on Monday following week to work out some kind of deal with their partners that had that part. AND NO ONE CALLED, what horrible experience to wait 3 month for a part?? Needless to say I would never recommend the brand that I spend good money for and cant get customer service that is run by incompetent staff.

My husband and I had been planning on renovating our kitchen for three years before beginning construction. We finally made the big move and gutted from floor to ceiling redoing lighting, flooring, sheetrock, every part of the kitchen. We chose Thermador appliances after visiting many appliance stores and talking to friends that have Thermador. Also, when you are purchasing all new appliances the appliance package is hard to pass up. We debated on getting Sub Zero/Wolf because it was only $3,000 more but in the end decided on Thermador 2018 Freedom Refrigerator and Freezer much to our dismay. We got our refrigerator first because both were on back order. Within the first 24 hours our refrigerator lights were not working properly and the unit switched off and on. We had to contact a repair person within the first day of having it. They replaced the main board at this time. We then finally received our freezer and again issues. Both appliances (2018 Freedom Refrigerator and Freezer) completely quit working within the first week. We are beyond frustrated and disappointed. The customer service at Thermador is terrible!!! I am wondering if anyone is having these issues and for anyone considering new appliances dont buy Thermador!!

Not even approved Thermador service companies will work on this unit. It requires two men to take it out to work on it. No one wants to do it. So far, I have paid one Thermador service company $359.66 upfront for half of the repair bill to repair the oven which is burning all the food and the microwave which hasnt work since the first year I purchased the unit. The repair told me after promising to show up two different times that he could not get anyone to help him remove the oven unit and it was too heavy for him to do his own. He has not returned my money. Next, my interior designer called the Thermador headquarters in Dallas. They charged me $59.99 upfront and said they would have a company approved repairman contact me. He contacted me but never came to the house. He too said he could not get anyone to help him take out the unit to work on it. He is no longer following up with me. I am currently using my 30 years old Black and Decker toaster oven which still works great. I am a Realtor for 26 years and homeowner here in The Woodlands. Many high-end homes use Thermador. Big mistake. My experience with Thermador has been expensive, time-consuming and hugely disappointing - a total waste of money.

Do not buy Thermador! I own a 48 oven/range that was installed in 2007. I have rarely used it because it is a vacation home. Parts are no longer available (really?) and it looks like many people are looking for the same part...front wiring harness. This is a top of the line range that almost burnt the house down! I have spent $300 on service reps getting it diagnosed and hours looking for the part online because the service reps can only sell me Thermador parts which are no longer made! REALLY?? And, Thermador customer service...can only say sorry, we no longer make the part. Do they really think that I will buy another $12,500 appliance from them? Anybody know of any class action suits? I own 2 of these units and I am ready to take them down!

We purchased a complete Thermador package in 2015 that included the side by side fridge and freezer unit approximately $8000.00. The first 18 months, no problems. Then water/ice started to run down the inside of the freezer and interfering with the unit fan. Which then resulted in the temperature rising above freezing. The certified Thermador repair folks have been out at least 6 times and have replaced almost all of the components of the freezer unit usually at a cost of $200 per visit. When working on the unit, they were in voice contact with the Thermador technicians doing what they were told. Each repair lasted 3-4 months and then water and ice began to run down the insides of the unit, same old problem. Thank heavens the local, certified tech is nice to work with and he is totally frustrated with the Thermador experts. I would think Thermador would replace such a defective unit at cost or no cost. But not at this date. Working with the local tech we are going to send an itemized cost of repair to Thermador that has occurred over the past years and see what happens. Will keep you posted.

We built a new home in 2015 and installed a complete kitchen from Thermador. The range had problems immediately but the service department responded and it has not been a problem. The microwave failed after less than 5 years and there is no replacement that will work with the built in oven combo. Numerous calls, service visits and still the microwave does not work. I am punting and buying a Bosch.

I purchased a Thermador refrigerator, an oven and a refrigerated drawer to hold cans/bottles about a year and one-half ago. So far Ive had to have the Thermador repairman come to fix each one of these products. The drawer actually stopped working altogether. The repairman was scheduled weeks if not months ago. We confirmed with Thermador yesterday that he was coming as these items are in our beach house so we arent always there and need to coordinate to make sure we are there. The repairman called us this morning and said, I dont know why they scheduled me today. I only go to your town on Tuesdays and Thursdays. When the products work they seem fine, but you can definitely do better than this - especially given its reputation as a premium brand. Try Subzero or Wolf.

This oven has malfunctioned since the day it was installed. It doesn’t heat to the right temperature, it doesn’t maintain the right temperature and nothing ever cooks inside. When using the top oven simultaneously with the bottom oven, the bottom oven automatically cools down. It was finally replaced with a new one and the new one does the same thing. I am going to take the $8,500 loss, and buy a new oven. Also, I would steer clear of Thermador refrigerators as well. They are very poorly designed!

I hate my new stove - it doesn’t have a timer or a thermometer. It cooks uneven. It trips circuit breakers. I paid $6,300 for this piece of junk. They replaced the inside thermometer but it still cooks uneven. My $99.00 AirFryer cooks and baked way better than this oven. Don’t waste your money - Oh and then you call to talk to customer service and after on hold for an hour it disconnects.

We purchased a Thermador convection 30 inch built in microwave double oven when we did a complete remodel of our home back in 2001. The microwave broke the first day we used it. Broken glass ended up in my food. Service people replaced the glass, which subsequently broke again the second time we used the upper microwave. I was then informed by Thermador that the microwave actually was not meant to cook the food but just to keep it warm. I did not bother to fix the microwave again. The convection oven never worked welI. We tried multiple times and the food did not cook completely. The upper oven door is very heavy due to the combo microwave feature. The doors have broken three times over the years. We have replaced the hinges twice times since 2001: Once in Feb 2008 and again in Jan. 2014. We were informed by an independent service man that the Thermador hinges are defective and that the company has known about this for years but has failed to inform the consumer. The new hinges that I just purchased apparently are the same defective hinges that I purchased prior. The company has made better hinges because the doors are too heavy, but they do not sell these to consumers. All I asked Thermador was to replace the defective hinges with the improved version but they refused. When our oven broke on New Years Eve, we had a house full of guests. Our oven was 350 degrees and would not close would not close, and it was a hazard to our guests. Our neighbors helped us tie up the oven with rope to keep it from burning the children. We feel strongly that the Thermador oven is an inferior product.

Biggest mistake ever. I bought a Thermador 38 range for $8,000.00 in 2002 and have been repairing it ever since. First the overhead lights quit working. Then the knobs starting falling off. The main oven has never held even heating and now Thermador tells me they have discontinued the parts I need to repair the oven. Thermador, Bosch, Gaggenau are all the same company. Avoid them at all costs. Get a Wolfe. My parents Wolfe is still working perfectly after 40 years. Thermador: biggest mistake ever.

I purchased a french door refrigerator & paid over 6k for it. I have to call the one & only repair man (who is authorized to fix it) every year since Ive gotten it. It has not cost me over 10k for this refrigerator. The customer service is also horrible. The technician has to come in to diagnose the issue, order the part (which takes a week or so) then come back again to install. Usually a 3 week fix. How do you expect your customer to be without a working refrigerator for 3 weeks! The only authorized technician also dont want to come & fit it because he said it is just a huge hassle to fix. It has so many issues: ie. Ice maker had to be replaced twice at a cost of $500.00 for the parts, twice, the sensor panel went bad & totally froze the entire cooling unit. Now my freezer section does not freeze causing me to throw out hundreds of dollar of food! Dont buy it!

I bought a $4000 professional 36 oven/stove. The power outage just fried the circuit board. This was the only time a power outage has ever damaged anything we own. Their response was to call service department if power cycling for 15 minutes doesnt do anything. Then to talk to the power company about fixing the issue with power (like they can control weather). The part was probably $400 and the repair was for another $120-240. It could happen any time when there is a power outage.

We had a Thermador double oven installed (built in) in 1999. We have had two major issues in that time. First was the control panel replacement - the electric panel needed to be switched out with a new one (2006). Now the convection feature for both ovens is not working (the bake, broil, self-clean are working properly - thats the good news!). So I called Customer Service and did you know the life of a Thermador oven is roughly 13 years? My message is, dont be fooled by Thermador!

I have had a very disappointing experience with Thermador and apart from keeping an induction cooktop since my granite was already cut! I returned all of my other Thermador items. The dishwasher (included in a buy +2 appliance package) independently measured as high as 70dBA vs. the advertised 48dBA. The 30 micro/oven wall combination came (twice) with a misaligned oven door. It was confirmed to me, after the fact, by a Thermador customer service person that Thermador is actually shipping ovens with a known defect that supposedly has an easy fix of replacement hinges. The issue is that NO ONE seems to know this! Not the Tech nor the appliance store. So +7 hours and 3 technician visits later (with minimum of 2 weeks between visits as I as told there are ONLY 2 techs that service the entire Austin, TX metro area). I am done with Thermador. I live in fear that should I have ever have a maintenance issue with the induction cooktop I have a 50% chance of getting the technician that was rude, condescending to me, my contractor, my designer and carpenter. So let me get this straight -- THERMADOR, you want me to pay top $$$ for your appliances. Chances are they may arrive defective. No one will know how to fix them (who wants a new $5000 appliance to need to be fixed anyway?) and on yeah, have to wait +2 weeks for a technician to come into my home and insult me. It doesnt get any worse than that. Thermador if you are reading this - shame on you!!! Perhaps you need to take a page from the KitchenAid playbook on how to treat your customers that are spending a ton of money on your over-hyped products.

12 years ago we redid our kitchen and installed premium appliances including the Thermador double wall oven C302. In that time the oven has performed well but required 3 expensive service calls to replace the relay board to a tune of $500 per repair. Recently, the part needed replacing and I used Thermadors official repair company, booked on the Thermador website. The initial estimate was $646.00, dismayed but determined to repair it (after careful consideration of replacement cost), I forged on. At the end of the service call another $21.00 part was needed, another service call. $181.00 in labor costs to install a $21.00 part. Multiple convos with company, no willingness at all to reduce cost.

We remodeled our kitchen before moving into our, new to us, but older home, back in 2014. When it was time to choose appliances, I was extremely excited, being a baker especially wanting to enjoy our new oven. The existing gas stove in the home was a Thermador so I thought I would get the same brand for the oven. The salesman wasnt very helpful so I just chose the double convection oven. Surprisingly, the convection aspect was not useful in controlling odors emanating from the oven, as I was told it would.Recently, the control panel went out, affecting many functions of the oven, the main one being only ONE oven would turn on at a time. The repair person explained the two year warranty and although this was a very expensive repair; upwards of $600, Thermador would not reimburse me for that reason. The oven also heats food is quite unevenly. Additionally we paid for the upgraded glider shelves, which do not glide appropriately. Then I discovered part of the shelf is bent, which explains the poor function, yet also indicates poor quality control. Overall, I am not impressed with this brand and would not recommend them.

We had a range from Thermador that never quite worked. After growing frustration, we finally called service and they told us that there was a defect with the logic board for our year of manufacture. However, because we waited so long (partially because of the pandemic) we were out of our two year warranty and they wouldnt repair the defect without spending $700 on the repair. This is for a $20,000+ range. Avoid this company like the plague.

We remodeled our kitchen in 2016 and spent a small fortune on what we believed to be high end appliances with Thermador. The Thermador range/steam oven combo is a piece of junk! Thermador replaced the first one within a year because we had so many problems and now the current one we are on our 6th major repair in 5 years! The current repair - replacing the convention motor for the second time - has taken us over 2 months to get completed...and we are still waiting (theyve cancelled our appointment twice by not showing up). Thermador customer service is pretty much non-existent. Do yourself a favor and buy another brand!

We purchased our Thermador gas range and oven when we remodeled our kitchen in 2005. We purchased a 48 professional range because I cook and bake a lot and have a lot of family to accommodate. This Thanksgiving my oven would heat but not hold a temperature. We had a repair tech come out and it is the thermometer. It shuts off the heating element when it reaches the desired temp. This part is discontinued by Bosch/Thermador rendering our perfectly good oven useless. The one part has made this oven and range obsolete. The companys customer service rep was awful and basically had nothing to say but that we should get a new one. I will NEVER buy a Thermador, Gagganau or Bosch product again. An $8000.00-$10,000 item rendered useless by a part and no customer service recourse.

Thermador SC302T Double built-in ovens. - There have to be the worst appliances for parts availability, reliability and service. You pay Cadillac prices and end up with Yugo reliability. Although the oven is now 12 years old, during this time, it has been nothing but trouble. After the first year, the display started to fade until it was gone. Clearly, someone decided to save 1/10 of a cent per oven by using poor tolerance capacitors in a hot environment. Hey, they made an extra cent, and the customer had to pay 125 dollars for the part and a couple of hundred for a service call. Fast forward two years, same story. The second unit died a couple of years later. By this time, there were no replacements, so I sat with a dark screen for a couple of years. Some time, Thermador changed hands and BSH started making the displays, AND control panel as a unit for 450 dollars. The upper oven temperature was failing, due to the temperature control module. I purchased the board and control, and made the replacement myself. Im sure that in another 2 years, it will need to be replaced again by which time I suspect the parts will be obsolete and unavailable.

My new Thermador refrigerator doesnt work and the company refuses to replace it. The unit was never used. They offer to fix, how is that possible. I feel like I bought a USED unit.

I bought a Thermador refrigerator (T360T810NS) in August 2014. It cost almost $8000.00. As other reviews have stated, it is noisier than I would have liked but that was tolerable. However, in May, 2019 (less than 5 years of service), the temperature sensor for the ice maker went out and had to be replaced ($420.00). Then it was determined that it was not the problem. It would have cost me another $500 to figure out what it was so I decided not to fix it. However, my major disappointment is in the response from Thermador when I tried to contact them. The people on the telephone were nice and did provide an email address after I waited over a month to get a response from the contact email on the website and after other calls. I sent that email over a month and havent heard a word and it did not bounce back. For high end appliances, they should have better consumer service. I will not buy another Thermador product.

My Thermador double oven is not working after three visits and several repairs from an appliance company this past week. The temperature reaches 250 and then it turns off. The broilers do not ignite; the griddle does not work and et cetera. I have been told that this model has been very problematic, and after reading many of the dismayed comments from others, I am wondering what recourse the consumers have. The reports are terrible. This company is not reputable, and the consumers are being ripped off.

I remodeled my kitchen 6 years ago and purchased 4 major appliances from a dealer specializing in this company - Thermador! I researched Thermador and saw that they were highly rated. Well, every appliance has been a piece of trash and I cant use my oven as it doesnt keep temperature and the part has been in limbo for 2 months. My induction cooktop has been repaired a couple of times over these 6 years. Now my dishwashers springs have popped and I am waiting for a certified Thermador tech to come and fix it. I am afraid to try my Thermador steam oven in the case that it may break before I sell my house and wont meet inspection. What a BAD company selling this trash. BEWARE!!!

I purchased 3 Thermador appliances in 2015 when I remodeled my first Thermador kitchen, which I LOVED. First: the new wall oven, model MED271JS, the narrowest oven they make at 27 wide, does not heat properly. It beeps that it has reached the set temp., but actually is 50 degrees (more or less) below the set temp. Baking cookies is a crap shoot as to whether they will be flat, indicating too low an oven temp. and that is what I usually get...flat cookies. I have not been able to consistently correct this problem. Roasting is also unpredictable. I have ruined many of very expensive meals due to the temp problem.I have had our local Thermador repair people out 3-4 times to address the inconsistent heating problem. They were unable to correct the issue and told me that new ovens now take longer (up to 30 minutes) to preheat an oven, and that this oven was operating as it should. Also, the oven cannot be set to start at a later time. It does have a Sabbath mode, but that has to be scheduled the day before I want to start up the oven, which for me is useless. So the oven does not heat properly and has no TIME BAKE setting. I will not purchase a Thermador product for my new house that we are building.Second: the cooktop SGSX365FS, cooks beautifully. Temps are easy to control, but cleaning is a bear. The star shaped burners make cleaning far more difficult than round ones, but the shape does cover the bottom of pots better than round ones. And the glass plate under the knobs is not sealed to the cooktop, and is not removable to clean spills that flow underneath it! Now there is thoughtful engineering. I use a pipe cleaner to sort of clean the under surface. Lastly, the micro-convection microwave-oven combination unit, model MCES, works as expected. We often use it to bake small meals and the temp is far more predictable than in the main oven... It does not bake bakery very well but that is not recommended by Thermador. My first Thermador kitchen was beautiful and fabulous to use. Current Thermador products are sorely lacking. Sad.

We purchased the Thermador refrigerator (Model T42BD820NS) in June 2014, yes, 2 months ago, and we are already experiencing problems. The ice maker completely broke and we had to wait a WEEK to get a service rep out to tell us they have to order a part and will come back in another week to fix it. So, not only does the product suck, because it broke after 2 months. (this is a $10K model by the way, would expect better performance) But, the service package is AWFUL too. We have always had GE Appliances in our past houses and have NEVER had a problem. This is completely unacceptable. Buyers beware of this very expensive piece of crap. I hope this helps someone make an informed decision because this has been a very disappointing experience. (I do like their dishwasher and cooktop, though, have to admit)

I bought the stove in late August 2021, first call for service in September, November repair replacing 2 burners, gas jets, module, cover, ignition. One week later 2 burners not working, small oven not working. Large oven not heating evenly. Where I bought it said call Thermador customer service and request a new stove. Called Thermador, got a case number, supplied all info, received an email saying I need a tech to diagnose that it is not operating properly -- da dude! No techs in Vermont are even returning calls, the store I brought it from says Thermador responds to customers. Not them. Wow $12 --!3,000.00 for a new stove that is 3 months old and this is the service one receives. !!!Dont Do It. Buy Something Else!!! Terrible! Nothing good to say about this stove, the service and the company.

I bought Thermador highly recommended products, $14,000 and barely 3 yrs later so far refrigerator freezes food and ice maker has quit, dishwasher leaks water when running and NOW the oven wont keep a set temperature and has numerous quirks. Its really sad for high end units to only have 1 yr warranty. Customer service is horrible to top off the thermador experience. Last appliances were a fraction of the cost and run forever. THANKS THERMADOR!!!! HAD TO LEAVE 1 STAR CAUSE THERE WASNT A NEGATIVE ONE.

We bought a Thermador double wall oven 5 years ago among many other appliances when redoing our kitchen and almost every time we use the self-clean feature, it goes into error mode and breaks the control board, the motor, or something else. We have had multiple repairmen out, including Thermador themselves, and each time it costs between $250-$350 dollars to service. I tried speaking to upper management from Thermador several times and they basically ignored my issue and told me it was too bad and they would not replace the unit. It has never been misused, and is treated with kid gloves and kept very clean. I would NEVER EVER buy Thermador ovens and watch out for their terrible customer service.

Each grate on the cooktop has four rubber feet inserted in a small hole. Cleaning and general use damage these pads and cause them to either tear apart or completely fall out, leaving the grate unstable and out of balance. Thermador did replace missing pads while the stovetop was under warranty, but the poorly thought out design continues to be a recurring problem.

We bought this as a part of our whole kitchen set of Thermador appliances and can not be more happier and proud as Thermador is best of the best!!

We paid a little over $25K for Thermador appliances and have had this equipment for almost three years. Our experience has been very poor. Given the price point, the equipment is unbelievably terrible. i.e. Our GE Profile appliances in our prior house had ZERO issues in 5 years and the equipment was 4 years old when we moved it. Thermadors customer support is difficult to reach. Theyre techs act like their is not a larger issue at hand even after youve called them 5 - 7 times over the same issue.1. Double Oven (digital version): The double oven is either too hot or too cold (weve called Thermador 5 - 7 times and every time they come out their techs say Our ovens are within tolerance if they are 25 degrees over or under the set temperature! Literally, the $400 Magic Chef oven/stove top that I grew up with had a more accurate and consistent oven temperature than the Thermador.2. Stove top and Fridge: These havent been so bad. The stove top had some issues with flames not burning even, which was resolved with new hardware. The fridge hinge wore into the plastic which was super annoying.3. Dishwasher: Three years into use, this dishwasher stopped working. Weve spend $500 in repairs and the non-Thermador tech said that Thermador appliances are known to have maintenance issues. Dishwasher will not run. First the pump stopped working, but it turned out there was a wire loose. Now we need a new electronic panel--Im throwing this thing out and buying a Miele or Asko.4. Customer Service: No joke there are times that Ive waited for 30 - 50 minutes to reach customer support. Thermador techs tend to be arrogant and believe their equipment is the best (which wouldnt be a big deal if Thermadors appliances backed up it).I would not recommend Thermador--youd be better off buyings anything/something cheap from Lowes or Home Depot.

I just bought Thermador appliances (Refrigerator, Stovetop, Microwave Oven, Dishwasher, Exhaust fan for stovetop) from Best Buy and they delivered the appliances on Feb 06, 2016 for my newly refurbished kitchen. When they delivered the appliances to my house and I opened the boxes, I noticed the Refrigerator had a dent on the door and the Microwave Oven had permanent marker markings on the sides of the appliance. The Stovetop that was installed started making noises the first day it was installed. Every time I turn the stove on, there is a ticking noise that does not go away and stays on until I turn off the stove. All five burners make this noise. Along with the ticking noise, the stainless steel stove turned dirty yellow upon first use. If I cook anything for 5 minutes, the cooktop turns gets a dirty yellow stain which does not go away. I complained to Best Buy, however, no one helped me. I used a normal sized pan to cook my food and the entire stovetop around that burner turned dirty yellow! The color does not come off! Since I noticed all these problems I called Best Buy that I want to return the appliances because they are horrible quality and also I received damaged goods upon receiving the appliances whereas I paid for brand new items. I spend about $10,000 dollars on these appliances. I called Best Buy again on the 10th day of my purchase and said I want to return the appliances. I talked to several people from Best Buy, Sam, Stan, Richard, & Jason and they kept putting me on hold but no one was able to help me still. Eventually, they said they would call me back and no one ever did. Finally, after five days of continuously trying to contact Best Buy, I finally got to the manager and he said it has been more than 14 days to return the appliances because the 14 days return policy had been over. Just to mention, upon purchase, no one had told me there was a 14-day return policy. However, I was trying to reach Best Buy since day 10 and they kept pushing me off. Now I am stuck with appliances I don’t want because they came damaged upon arrival. Best buy manager said that he can change the refrigerator door but I do not want it anymore. I am trying to get in touch with Thermador but no one is able to help me. I am extremely upset! My Sales Number is ** and **. I need someone from Thermador to contact me so I can get things cleared up and I want to return the appliances back as soon as possible. Some of the appliances seem like they may have been previously used and returned by other people. I really appreciate the corporate office if they take notice of the used items and help me. I have not used any of the appliances besides the cooktop; the rest are still sitting there waiting to be installed. Can someone please help me for God sake?

We purchased a Thermador triple oven combination (model #semw302) in 2007 when we built our home. Over the past 9 years weve had to have multiple repairs on the main oven. The door hinges have been replaced twice, the circuit board replaced once, the self cleaning function stopped working twice. Actually only worked for one self cleaning. Each time. Now we once again have to replace both the circuit board and the relay board on the oven. Great. After paying a service man $80 yesterday, we were told that Thermador has discontinued the circuit board that we need and it also needs to have the relay board replaced. Which I believe is somewhere around $225.It was suggested we try to find someone to rebuild our circuit board. Even after spending some considerable time searching the internet, I havent found anyone who can rebuild this particular circuit board. and this would probably cost over $200. Plus installation. I already have spent close to $1000 on repairs. The microwave and the warming drawer are both fine. Now it looks like we will have to throw out the whole triple combination unit since its one piece. We will NOT be looking to replace it with another Thermador. This may be the worst purchase weve ever made in 50 years of marriage. JUNK!

We have a Thermador range and vent hood. The 4 out of 6 range pilot light works, the other 2 works on and off for years. One of the range hood lamp stop working even with new bulb, got on their site and email them for replacement part, after 3 weeks and two email still waiting. What a terrible customer service, I would never recommend them for anything. Their products are overprice and their service is just sooooo poor.

Do not buy Thermador cooktops. This company does not provide high-quality products. When their product fail to operate, it is the customers problem. Their customer service personnel are awful and will say anything to the customer and make false statements to the customers. I will never buy this product again. I also plan to call, email, etc. and tell everyone I come in contact with not to buy this product.I purchased a glass ceramic stove top that stopped working after three weeks. They claimed it had been repaired; however, they kept the stove top for about six months. I have used this stove top for only two years. The entire stove top stopped working, and Thermador told me it was my problem and I would need to have the stove top repaired. Thermador products are expensive, but they are very poor products with no quality added.

Double oven purchased in 2007 (ME302ES/01). The cooling fan caused an error code E118. Thermador has no one in my area to fix it. They will not give me the information to correctly diagnose the issue. I paid a lot of money for this bucket and the Thermador National Parts Center (877-731-8081) marks up the price of the part to above retail. When confronted the sales person said, ** you, and hung up. I think Ill yank it out and you fill in the blank with your colorful mete-fore. I ordered a cooling fan from Bosh (800-944-2904) for $116.00 and will change it out once. Im thinking about a class action law suit if nothing is done.

I purchased my complete set of Thermador appliances back in 2006 and installed them in my new kitchen in 2007. In August of this year 2014 the fridge/freezer stopped working and after 2 months of dealing with their customer support and technicians it still doesnt work. I had to purchase a used one off of Craigslist as a temporary just to get by. After several phone calls and much complaining they finally offered to replace it but only if I could show my original receipt/proof of purchase, which of course I can’t find and the dealer is out of business. To add insult to injury I had to pay them just under $900 for labor to have their unqualified technicians come out 4 times. If I ever see the salesperson that talked me into this stuff I think I will punch him in the nose.

I contacted Thermador customer service in AUGUST to request service for my water dispenser. The water button stopped working. It is now DECEMBER. Over the last four months we received the wrong part no less than 3 times. The part is estimated to cost in the $500 range. The technician rigged the button to work on his last visit but it ultimately failed. I called customer service again today - asked for a supervisor who was horrible. No answer/update/information. She told me she would get back to me which I assume will be much like no one has done since AUG. Apparently this kind of thing can take months. I told her it HAS BEEN MONTHS. Please Thermador... come fix my water dispenser!

We bought a very high end Thermador dishwasher, DWHD630GCM, about 20 months ago. Four weeks ago, its lower pan completely broke so we called their repair service. The repairman told us that its not reparable, but Thermador should replace it because the hinge is not broken and hence the pan could not have been broken by us. We called Thermador to replace this dishwasher, but they flatly refused by saying that there is no manufacturing defect in this dishwasher. It is patently absurd that the bottom pan can break by abnormal use but the corresponding hinge on the door does not break.

Its the same problem that I have read about over and over and over again. My 10 year old Thermador 27 double oven has had most of the problems described in previous reviews. The incessant beeping where you have to shut down breaker for it to stop, the default codes that pop up because of the erratic sensors, and finally the control board going on the fritz and finding out that there is no way to purchase anew or even rebuilt one because it has been discontinued. So, basically I have to spend $5,000 for a new oven when I only need a $300 replacement part. However, the good news is that I wont have to put up with this nonsense any longer.

As part of a SF Bay Area remodel last year, we were excited to replace all appliances with Thermador top-line products. We spent about $30,000, anticipating a great kitchen experience with their products. Instead, we were utterly disappointed and left wishing that we had picked almost any other appliance brand! The Thermador Convection Oven Microwave MC30WS/01 is a nightmare. Every single time you have to use the microwave you have to endure a 2-second ‘boot-up’ process that flashes “Thermador” accompanied by a loud tinny tune. WHY??Then it takes 3 steps to select a simple microwave setting to finally get it going. But, if you start the unit and step away to do anything else (which is what you do all the time!) it will hammer you with a loud alert jingle that it is done - not once or twice, but again, and again, and again and again and again and AGAIN… a total of FIFTEEN TIMES! WHY?? And there’s no way to silence this “feature”. For $3,000 all we bought ourselves was a dose of daily aggravation. Similarly the Dishwasher DWHD650WPR/13. Once it completes the wash cycle, it too announces repeatedly - SIX loud beeps which repeat over and over SIX times, even in the dead of night.. and the only way to stop that madness is to go and open the unit’s door! It makes us wonder if these products are designed to impose upon the user rather than to do their job and sort of disappear in the background? For instance if a user starts the dishwasher at night, does Thermador expect her to stand by until the cycle is complete and they can kill the alerts so that a guest sleeping in an adjacent room doesn’t get disturbed? Or if a user starts the microwave, are they expected to physically stand by so that a string of unending alerts don’t wake up a sleeping baby? It is as if the people who designed the products never used them themselves. Otherwise it is hard to understand how anyone, especially a company like Bosch / Thermador, would let this stuff fly. We’ve never been so disappointed with appliances in all our lives, certainly not ones that are so expensive.

I purchased a suite of Thermador appliances for my kitchen 6 years ago. You get a better deal when you buy an entire brand. Even though I knew every brand has its strengths and weaknesses I gave into the salesman’s pressure and the better pricing. Never again! A rookie mistake. The only appliance from Thermador that has performed well is the dishwasher. The ovens take forever to get to preheat and even when the alarm sounds that it has reached temperature it’s not even close to the set temp. I had to buy a thermometer to put inside the oven to gauge when it was truly at the desired temp.The fridge door has never closed properly and it leaks on my wood floor. After install Thermador customer service said my concerns were “customer preference” and nothing faulty with the fridge or freezer. The ice maker makes weird ice and it takes forever. Now the entire freezer quit freezing and the repairman suggested I replace it with a Sub Zero. I paid $8k for this fridge/freezer and my less expensive built in was twice the appliance of this one. Word to the wise....don’t buy a suite. Buy each appliance in the brand that they are known for and have strong reviews. If misery loves company I am not lonely on the topic of Thermador! Never again.

I Purchased Thermador Appliances for my Kitchen (Microwave, Refrigerator, Stove, Oven, Dishwasher) for a second home that I live in two times a year for a short period of time. Microwave died, repairing it would cost over $600. No option to replace it because it is discontinued and no other microwave will fit the built in space in my kitchen. Customer services pretty much gave me the only option of remodeling my kitchen as a solution, or to spend another $1000 in the same old microwave purchased from a distributor that still has it on stock.I asked if they were really advising me to purchase a microwave they obviously discontinued because it was defective....they said yes! Grace, the manager I spoke with was absolutely the worst employer at Thermador. She hang up on me. Barret a customer service representative was nice initially but after speaking to his supervisor (Grace) came back to me lying and telling me I had no alternatives but to remodel. Barret I feel for you for having a boss like that.Aside from the microwave, the dishwasher door also broke.... The parts I ordered to fix it dont match my old parts. I contacted Thermador for this as well and again....no solution. They dont know what is going on and nothing they can do. I do advice to stay away from this company. Your appliances will break with very very little use and they will wash their hands. Sadly Thermador is the same as Bosch. I should have spend a bit more money and stick to WOLF. My main home appliances have lasted for years. No issues.

ProGrand oven and range - My wife and I bought this range that was a dream of my wifes, which now has turned out to be her worst NIGHTMARE!!!!!!!!! We had it installed in our remodeled kitchen. Looks really nice, but for the most part so does a bookend. The range part works well but the oven is a joke. The only thing it cooks good is our bank account...! The wonderful people at Thermador thought they had better way to light a oven, putting a delay of so many seconds on the gas valve, before it lights... Thus filling your oven full of gas and when it lights, which you have a 50/50 chance that it might, the door on the oven jumps out a bit as it is now lit... For how long it stays going is a crapshoot. If you are cooking a roast that will take over a hour, forget it. It wont relight to keep at temp. But the fun part of it is the temp on the dial shows whatever the temp you set it at! Open the oven and its around 100 degrees. NICE! It is what it is and thats JUNK!We had a company who was great repairing the Wonderful PRO-Grand, new name should be PRO Crap, but anyway the repairman found a missing part in the oven. Called the Company and got the repair tech on the phone, who stated, We do not sell that Part... Now three weeks later the repair company going to bat for me, got the people at Thermador to send us the part. Which in fact they forgot to install at the so-called Factory! Wonderful the problem fixed right?????? NOPE! Installed that part and the oven is still doing the same thing...! Anyway not wanting to see the Nice repairman again for awhile we started using the barbecue as our new oven!Works great keeps the temp right and it only cost $300.00. Pro Grand $6000.00 Plus.... Is there something wrong with this picture????? Now we are getting close to the end of this Saga.....! Bit the bullet and called the Nice Repairman. Was like old home week for the first three minutes, but he got the Pro Grand apart could not figure it out and call the Factory Tech. His name is Mr. Confused. Was told what was happening and he could not figure it out either.....! So the Nice Repairman asked, Why do we need this delay on the gas and light it like the broiler lights? which is right now... Doesnt figure does it.....! DA. Okay, now one great-minded repairman and one confused Factory Tech tells the Nice Repairman, You mean like the Older Pro Grands? Yes, the OLD ONE!!!!!!! Yes!!!! Factory Tech the Old tried and true Lights every time system. Okay, the Confused Factory Tech says... Now we wait!!!!!!! Nice repairman leaves to find out what he needs as far as parts and if he really is right... Yes he was!!!!! Mr. Nice Repairman got all the new stuff ordered and now I have to Open my wallet again to pay the Nice Repair Company...! The cost of this repair was Only $475.80 thus bring up the total cost of repairs to $1065.71 Pro Grands final repair total. Dont waste your time with Thermador thinking they will stand behind the product. The Fact is they wont....! For those of you who dont know this Thermador is owned by Bosch...... !

Purchased over $50K in Thermador products in doing a renovation of our kitchen. The first 60 Range/Oven we purchased began failing (oven wouldnt light) within 3 months. After six service calls, new wiring, new motherboard, etc, still didnt fix the issue. Used social media to force Thermador to replace the range, now six months later, same issues with the new range. Customer service is awful, giving us a hard time about repairs because our purchase date (of the original range) is pre-warranty. DO NOT BUY THERMADOR!!! Choose Viking or some other manufacturer.

We bought a 48-inch Thermador range hood which is the worst that weve ever used. If you look at my backsplash pictures, you would understand why I am complaining - it is almost useless. We contacted the customer service and they stopped by. While their assessment was the range hood was just fine, the oily backsplash was just that we cooked too much. They refused to fix it.

In 1993 a 30 dual fuel RDSS30 was installed in a custom home. We bought the house in 1998. Within 2 years the front panel would start to blink. This turned into the panel shutting down. We were told back then that we could not get the computer panel. My husband just happened to find a floor model of the same stove so we purchased another RDSS30 not realizing this was a chronic problem with Thermador. Within a year the computer panel would start blinking then the oven would just randomly shut off. We never even used the self clean feature being afraid the extra heat would make it worse. Now it is to the point where the number are so dim you cannot see them unless you are in the dark. The oven will not heat beyond around 300. It shuts off without warning. How can a 5 year old $5000 stove not be able to be fixed? There are outside companies that offer the service to rebuild the boards. So why cant Thermador? I will tell you why. They do not give a damn.

This is a Thermador, built-in, French-door fridge/freezer (Model #T36IT800NP), only 2 yrs. old that cost approx. $8500, uninstalled, pre panels. The design is very poor to begin with. The shelves span all the way across the interior. Having split shelves that allow different height items (like most French door refrigerators) would allow far more versatility in storage. As it is, all tall items must go in the door which means condiments clutter up the only three shelves. Within the first year, the seal on the left door started to fail. Next was the ice maker (made by Samsung!). The water filter needs to be changed every 6 mos. The first change was fine, the second change was not recognized by the computer and the change filter display was constantly illuminated. I had a service tech out who suggested I try another filter, perhaps my replacement was defective. I could ignore the display, but it quit making ice. Then it started making ice again sporadically. At this point, the tech suggested I order a new ice making unit and filter valve. Before I could even place the order, the machine went hyper and made so much ice it overflowed (supposed to have a sensor to prevent that) blocking the back of the freezer drawer so that it could not close. After removing the ice blockage, the flimsy top freezer shelf (which holds the ice bin) would not close and small piece of plastic that kept it in place fell off. Upshot, had to turn off the erratic ice maker, permanently remove the top shelf and bin, and we now have no ice mid-summer.I did my research and had ordered a KitchenAid, problem with stocking and time crunch so ended up with this very expensive and disappointing model on the recommendation of the sales person. Massive mistake! Top of the line machines should NOT be made with cheap parts. It also appears that the warranty will not cover any of the parts or labor to replace. Ive built many kitchens, but this is the first appliance that Ive ever regretted purchasing. Caveat emptor!

Our refrigerator is leaking water damaging the floor to our apartment. We called urgently to schedule an appointment in New York City and were told no appointments were available for weeks. No one returns repeated calls for help. Would never buy this product again.

Bought the Freedom Induction Cooktop 7 years ago. First broke down two months out of 3 year warranty then again at seven year mark. Customer support was extremely poor. Thermador Serviceman said he had never been trained on the stove and didn’t know what to do. Both times it was the main module that went. First repair was over $600 and this repair would have been Over $1400. Customer service would not tell me whether a new part would have been modified to fix the obvious problem (as written up all over the internet). We chosen to pursue our FREEDOM from THERMACRAP and choose to INDUCT them into the Hall of Poor Quality and Customer Support. We have had much better success with KitchenAid.

My thermostat went out in my larger oven and I struggled to get it fixed as the self-cleaning feature was based on a mercury-based system and that was determined illegal prior to my range malfunction. So, no one initially wanted to help me in Customer Service. My original guy was super rude. My local contractor was frustrated as the parts sent were wrong two times.Ironically, after Mister rude customer service man and a follow up call by me, I got a lot of support from Thermador as I guess they do listen to the customer service calls. My contact at Thermador alleviated the cost of the new thermostat that was legal without mercury. Yes, I gave up my self-cleaning forever, a bummer. My local contractor came out several times to get it right. I wasnt the nicest about it as I was so frustrated to spend around $8000 for an appliance and hood and just 9 years in, they said it was obsolete and had no warranty. End of the day, in 2011, after the repair before Thanksgiving, it didnt get to temperature again. Turkey was ruined.The local service came and did one more fix after reconnecting with Thermador and discovered they sent the wrong repair information, final repair was in December 2011. Ever since then, cooking is going great. Knowing I could put in my turkey last Thursday and knowing it would be perfect, which it was, was awesome. I feel like I got my 75% of original purchase back(!) less the self-cleaning. Thanks for monitoring mean customer service reps and being pro active! Please forward this to my local repair company. I think it was All-Service in Bellevue. Thanks.

The Thermador dishwasher was installed in the summer of 2012 (7 years ago). I have had to replace the computer as the lighting wasnt working (within 2 years). Shortly after replacing the same problem re-occurred. Now the dishwasher does not turn off and it runs and runs with no water. Thermador stated that I should get it serviced - no concern whatsoever that this product was costly to purchase and costly to repair. Thermador DWHD630IFM. No more products from Thermador.

36 inch dual fuel range & dish washer - We have had our Thermador for two years and the oven has been out of service for four months to date and its out again! When we first tried to clean the oven, the heat burned up the circuit board. But that was not the first thing they tried and every part they need they have to order after a home visit, so the process took almost two months to resolve the first time. No oven for Thanksgiving and almost no oven for Christmas. Next time we cleaned the oven, poof, its broken again. Now, the warranty is out of date but it is the same problem! Now we fight through another battle. The oven was again eventually fixed and survived several cleanings but once again the oven is kaput after an attempt to use the cleaning cycle. There is also the story about the issues with the Thermador dishwasher sometimes running and sometimes not. Less painful than the oven but not what you would expect from new top of the line appliances. Never buy a Thermador appliance! I am sure you will do much better with any other manufacturer.