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Thermador Range Model CET366YB
Thermador - Masterpiece Series 36in Built-In Electric Cooktop with 5 elements - Black
Upgrade to the latest culinary technology with this 36-inch Thermador Masterpiece Series electric cooktop. The dual-element bridge expands your cook space to accommodate a griddle, while the nine preprogrammed modes take the guesswork out of cooking vegetables, potatoes and other common foods. This Thermador Masterpiece Series electric cooktop has an illuminated touch panel with 17 temperature settings for greater control.
Manufacturer: Thermador
MODEL: CET366YB
MSRP: $2249.00 USD
Thermador Range Model CET366YB Error Codes
CODE: E1
PROBLEM: Control board problem.
CODE: E2
PROBLEM: Cook or clean mode runaway.
CODE: E3
PROBLEM: Open oven temperature sensor (over 5000 ohms).
CODE: E4
PROBLEM: Shorted oven temperature sensor (under 500 ohms).
CODE: E5
PROBLEM: Control board too cold or too hot, or defective board.
CODE: E6
PROBLEM: Control board problem.
CODE: E7
PROBLEM: Illegal temp display turn off and retry.
CODE: E8
PROBLEM: Control board problem.
CODE: E9
PROBLEM: Latch switch problems.
CODE: E10
PROBLEM: Control board problem.
CODE: E11
PROBLEM: Latch switch problem.
CODE: E12
PROBLEM: Latch switch problem.
CODE: E13
PROBLEM: Latch froze or no power to latch motor.
CODE: E14
PROBLEM: Latch switch problems.
CODE: E15
PROBLEM: Control board problem.
Related Error Code Pages:
Thermador Dishwasher Error Codes, Thermador Range Error Codes, Thermador Refrigerator Error Codes,
Related Troubleshooting Pages:
Thermador Dishwasher Troubleshooting, Thermador Range Troubleshooting, Thermador Refrigerator Troubleshooting,
Related Repair Pages:
Thermador Dishwasher Repairs, Thermador Range Repairs, Thermador Refrigerator Repairs,
Related Parts Pages:
Thermador Dishwasher Parts, Thermador Range Parts, Thermador Refrigerator Parts,
Thermador Range Model CET366YB
I have 2, 36 full size Thermador ovens that are 11 yrs old. I have already replaced the control panel on each - a $400 part plus labor. Now one oven is not heating due to a bad bake element and sensor. I can replace the bake element but the $40 sensor is no longer available. Thermador tells me that my ovens are obsolete - just buy 2 new ovens!!! I have to spend $8000 because they will not make replacement parts. This is sooo wrong on every level - lets just trash the old ones in a landfill and keep the company making money off the unsuspecting consumer. NEVER BUY A THERMADOR!!!
In 1993 a 30 dual fuel RDSS30 was installed in a custom home. We bought the house in 1998. Within 2 years the front panel would start to blink. This turned into the panel shutting down. We were told back then that we could not get the computer panel. My husband just happened to find a floor model of the same stove so we purchased another RDSS30 not realizing this was a chronic problem with Thermador. Within a year the computer panel would start blinking then the oven would just randomly shut off. We never even used the self clean feature being afraid the extra heat would make it worse. Now it is to the point where the number are so dim you cannot see them unless you are in the dark. The oven will not heat beyond around 300. It shuts off without warning. How can a 5 year old $5000 stove not be able to be fixed? There are outside companies that offer the service to rebuild the boards. So why cant Thermador? I will tell you why. They do not give a damn.
Replacement part of oven sensor no longer available which makes the double ovens non-operational when it senses a problem that usually does not exist. All other parts of the oven work and it is poor customer service to leave a total replacement as the only option. Built-in oven replacements amount to thousands of dollars. I cannot in good conscience recommend a company that said they are only liable for the parts for 7 yrs. This is Thermador using Government Regulations to provide poor customer satisfaction and quality control.
I don’t think I have ever written a review until now. I am just heartbroken. We spent $30k on a Thermador appliance package two years ago and have had so many issues! I am an avid cook and baker and also teach cooking classes in my home kitchen. I was so excited to install these gorgeous appliances into my kitchen even though it was a huge sacrifice for our budget. We bought the 4 burner with electric griddle cooktop, the built-in fridge and freezer, the double ovens, dishwasher and range hood. Our kitchen is gorgeous but that’s where the excitement stops. We have had multiple repairman to our house to try and fix our appliances with no results. Our burners on the cooktop don’t get very hot so it takes over 20 minutes to boil a pot of water. I can not can or even sear meat on on my stovetop which is a huge letdown. I have had two repairman and the gas company all out to look at it and they are perplexed and say there is nothing wrong with the installation or the gas line, that’s just how the stove cooks. Meanwhile our crazy expensive freezer has stopped producing ice and water and is leaking from somewhere and completely ruining our hardwood floors we installed during our remodel. They are built-in so you can’t just pull them out and find the problem, you have to wait for a professional. I live near a big city and there are only 2 repair places in our area. We have been waiting for over a month and the problem is still not fixed. The part is on backorder so meanwhile, our floor continues to warp and is now sleeping into our cabinetry. I just want to cry. I had such high expectations for these beautiful appliances and to say we have been “let down” is a complete understatement. Please spare yourself the frustration and disappointment and look elsewhere for your professional appliances.
We have a Thermador range and vent hood. The 4 out of 6 range pilot light works, the other 2 works on and off for years. One of the range hood lamp stop working even with new bulb, got on their site and email them for replacement part, after 3 weeks and two email still waiting. What a terrible customer service, I would never recommend them for anything. Their products are overprice and their service is just sooooo poor.
I remodeled my kitchen in July 2015. I was so excited when my Thermador Range arrived and was put into place. My daughter and I couldnt wait to use it! She started by baking cookies. She is an amazing baker. The cookies she baked in the Thermador came out very different. They were done on the outside and raw on the inside. Same thing every time she baked after that. She really thought she was losing her touch. Yesterday was Thanksgiving and I had 8 people coming for dinner. I couldnt wait to show off my new range! I put the Turkey in the oven at 11:30 on 325. At 5:30 it looked done on the outside but was raw on the inside. It was thoroughly thawed when I put it in the oven. As a matter of fact everything took twice as long to cook as it should have.After everyone went home and I was cleaning the kitchen I decided to put the self cleaning on. About 20 minutes later there was a big crash and shattered glass all over my kitchen floor!! The interior glass exploded!! I was so scared and in such shock! I started researching and realized there are so many problems with Thermador! I dont want to fix it. I just want it out of my house. I contacted an attorney and Im hoping I can give it back. I called the appliance place I bought it from and asked them to take it back. I told customer service I would purchase a Wolf and pay the difference. She laughed and said What are we supposed to do with the Thermador? Why Thermador is still in business I dont understand! I will never make a big purchase again without seeing the reviews first. I hope this saves someone else from making the big mistake I did.
Our Pro Grand Steam Range leaked from day one. It went through major repairs and now the steam oven will not turn off. We have had major problems and Thermador refuses to replace. Repair is through the warranty is over a week away and we had to turn off the oven from the circuit breaker. Customer service has been awful!! Do not buy Thermador. Wolf/Sub zero is what I wished we went for. We paid $14,000 for this appliance and it had been a disaster.
Thermador Double Oven Model MED272JS installed April 2014. August 15, 2014 turned on the self cleaning mode for the upper oven for the first time, about 20 minutes into 1 1/2 cycle, heard a loud pop and noticed the interior glass shattered.
Our 9-month-old Thermador T36 fridge stopped making ice--the water filter had expired. Now I have a choice of buying filters from Thermador for the rest of my life or bypassing the filter by buying a substitute filter--for $45 (plus shipping and handling, of course)!
Got a lemon. Simple as that. Brand new $6,500.00 stove not functioning properly, on broil or bake, intense amount of heat and smoke coming from stove after it is heated. I do have a good vent system and must have it on, otherwise I would have the alarm go off for all the smoke that builds up and seeps out of oven. After 2 technicians I am told the blower element needs to be replaced. Brand new stove and parts need to be replaced??? Unacceptable!!! Newly installed and after a few uses with manufacturing defects it should not be considered safe to use. Thermador is only willing to replace parts and not replace.
The size was ok, enough for my family. We had used it for three and a half years but we have to buy another one as we changed our apartment. The products performance was very good. We were happy to use it. It did not use much electricity which is extremely important for my family. The product appearance was nice. It looked very expensive and stylish. My friends always told me that they also like how it looks. I liked this refrigerator because of its value. We were happy to use it.
I purchased a 30 Stainless Steel Thermador Range Hood HSB30BS in June of 2008. Within a year and a half and six months out of warranty, the buttons that control the fan and the light began to come off. They are push buttons and are configured in such a way that when you press one to change the fan speed, another will be pushed out and deactivated - similar to an old style car radio with mechanical buttons. The problem is that the sub-assembly that receives the metal buttons is a square plastic peg and the button itself on the inside is round. The proverbial square peg in a round hole. The plastic gets worn and the buttons shoot off when they are pushed. I asked for the repairman to leave the sub-assembly with me after the repair ($350.00) to see exactly what went wrong. The hood cost me $700.00 new. So now that it is broken again, it does not make sense making the same repair again with a poorly designed part. I contacted Thermador the first time it broke and the best they could offer me was 10% off of the cost of the replacement part. I was busy at the time and was not able to write a proper letter to someone at Thermador, but I have to wonder if the results would have been much different. I have a Thermador stove as well that had a cooling fan motor ($300.00) repair just a little over a year and half after purchase. This one was out of warranty too. The stove cost $3,700.00. So I am, for obvious reasons, not a great fan of Thermador. I had two other repair calls on the stove to deal with a faulty ignitor, but they were thankfully covered by the initial warranty. I have never been a complainer, but it is hard for me to believe that I have just had bad luck with this companys products. I am a contractor by trade and like some of BSHs products. Bosch makes good tools and others that are not so good. At a certain price point though, my expectations go way up. Thermador looks nice and thats about the only nice thing I can say.
Our stove went hay wire after an electrical storm. The extra low burner continually clicks on and off very loudly unless the power is disconnected to the stove entirely. After waiting weeks for a repair, it seems the manufacturers used epoxy to cement the stove top shut so it cant be opened to repair. This stove cost about $7,000 three years ago and it looks like we have to replace it entirely!!!
Been having trouble with my Thermador PRL304EG ever since I have had it since 2006. Main electronic board after board, repair man cant put the finger on the issue. Maybe if parts were not made in China... They could make better ranges. Oven stops heating, or decides what it wants to do. I got a lemon in Thermador, or did I?? Probably all then same little cheap ranges... wont put their pants on and just replace unit. Repair cost for a Thermador is like 600.00 to $1000 a year (at least 2 services a year). If you want my advice, stay away from Thermador, because they sure do! Run Thermador run. Range should be giving me repair codes, but never in 10 years did it give any codes, not even once.
We purchased a Thermador triple oven combination (model #semw302) in 2007 when we built our home. Over the past 9 years weve had to have multiple repairs on the main oven. The door hinges have been replaced twice, the circuit board replaced once, the self cleaning function stopped working twice. Actually only worked for one self cleaning. Each time. Now we once again have to replace both the circuit board and the relay board on the oven. Great. After paying a service man $80 yesterday, we were told that Thermador has discontinued the circuit board that we need and it also needs to have the relay board replaced. Which I believe is somewhere around $225.It was suggested we try to find someone to rebuild our circuit board. Even after spending some considerable time searching the internet, I havent found anyone who can rebuild this particular circuit board. and this would probably cost over $200. Plus installation. I already have spent close to $1000 on repairs. The microwave and the warming drawer are both fine. Now it looks like we will have to throw out the whole triple combination unit since its one piece. We will NOT be looking to replace it with another Thermador. This may be the worst purchase weve ever made in 50 years of marriage. JUNK!
We have repeated failures of the blower motors on our oven. If the oven senses that either fan isnt spinning at nominal speed, the oven shuts down. Its a $500 bill every time one of the motors goes out ($300 service plus $200 for the part). The first went out barely a year after we bought the oven. The next went out later the same year. Barely a year later and one of the replacements is failing. Replacing the fan involves pulling the oven from the wall, no easy feat for the do-it-yourselfer.Note that sometimes a reset will work, at least temporarily. Thermador doesnt make the reset easy. You have to cut off power at the circuit breakers, turn power back on, then do the programming for date and time. Very frustrating if you have to do this several times hoping that fan will spin a bit faster on the next go around.
This 48 Range #PRD48JDGU has been giving me problems since I purchased it. At two months old the small oven went out. Then the control panel needed to be replaced. Then right front burner had to be replaced. Next Left front burner had to be replaced. Now the small oven fan wont turn off, and door will lock and unlock. I had to turn off entire unit. For fear that its going to cause a fire. Customer Service is a joke. They put you on hold forever. I really believed in this company. But I guess because they have been around 100 years. They really dont care about the customer. As long as they are getting paid.
Model #PDMW301J-USA. We just had this unit installed on Jan 31, 2014, turned on the self-cleaning mode for the first time yesterday, and the glass between the interior and exterior glass on the oven door shattered into tiny pieces approximately 1/2 hour into the cycle. The dealer has been very helpful in expediting a resolution, and the local repair guy recommended by the dealer has already ordered replacement glass and feels they wont have a problem with processing the warranty request. We dont know yet how long it will take to get the replacement part, but very disappointed about the defect and worried that the next piece of glass will also be defective, rendering our new oven useless in the meantime. We were very pleased, however, about how well our first turkey turned out and the cooktop we purchased at the same times is performing nicely so far. The higher end dishwasher that came with the package is perfection (we paid extra for the upgrade on the dishwasher). I recommend that buyers of any Thermador oven unit have the installation technician run it through the self-clean mode before signing off on the install. Better yet, have the dealer do it before they deliver!
When we built this house in 1975, we built a space for the Thermador with a single oven, a microwave and a warming drawer. I dont recall when it died or what killed it, but while it required repairs from time to time, it gave us good service for a number of years. Since we had the hole in the wall to fill and were satisfied with Thermador, we bought a modern version of our first Thermador for about $5000.00!! Another way to say that is that we bought a piece of CRAP from a company that doesnt give a rats ass about their stuckees. Our microwave failed. I called Thermador. Not only could they not sell me a replacement, the customer service rep would not even tell me where or how to get one. We finally found out from other Thermador stuckees, that there are number of name brand replacements that cost only a few hundred dollars. All that is required is a replacement the same size. We had a professional do it and I watched him work with some metal tape to seal the exhaust duct. But there is no electrical work required. It just plugs in to a receptacle inside the cavity which houses it. We ended up with a Whirlpool we got from Lowes. It fits like a glove!We were not so lucky with our main oven. They never got it fixed! The main oven gave us no problem until one evening we had guests over. I set the steaks to broil and a few minutes later, I opened the door to determine that they were cold and uncooked. Our outdoor grill saved the day. Although the oven worked on all other settings I failed on the height setting. Recommended for broiling steak and hamburger. It also failed on sausage. The oven operated on high broil for about 5-6 minutes and then cut itself off. When the door was opened, a huge amount of smoke poured out. A Thermador authorized repairman came out. Mind you this was the first time anyone had been into the oven circuitry since we bought it. He found a clearly amateurish setup where wires were tied together with friction tape. Was that done at the Thermador factory? We were, as I recall beyond the warranty cutoff date. He replaced a circuit board for a couple hundred bucks. That did no good! Then he replaced a Thermocouple for over a hundred bucks. That did no good. This poor guy came at least a half dozen times. Each time he consulted with the Thermador experts on the phone - all to no avail. Then he retired! The authorized repair company sent another guy out. He played with it for a couple hour and finally concluded that the owners manual was wrong in their instructions on where to put the meat. He noted that the steaks could be placed on a lower rack, like rack 4 instead of 6 and the steaks would do just as well. And that contrary to what the manual said and contrary to the fact that it worked fine using the recommended settings prior to the first failure - that was the way this clown insisted the oven was supposed to work. With that he came up with a $250 bill for his time. That was about a year ago. I hope hes still holding his breath.Each failure was accompanied by a tremendous amount of smoke. There is no internal exhaust system, but the experts couldnt explain the smoke accompanying the failure. I dont have the answer but we have found that while we get a failure and a lot of smoke and a failure with the rack at level 6. Hi Broil. We get no failure and less smoke (of course) with the rack set at level 6 Hi Convection Broil. So through no fault of Thermador, we can broil steaks almost like the user manual recommends.
Ive had Thermador appliances in my last two homes. Loved them. Didnt have any problems. We just moved and bought a new 48 all gas range (first time to have such a large range). So far so good. Only problem is the display panel light wont go off. Im hoping this is not a big deal. I have always enjoyed my appliances from Thermador. Ive had the range, microwave, dishwasher, wall oven, and warming drawer. Dont let me down this time!!!
I have Thermador cooktop, hood, warming drawers and double ovens since 2001 in my kitchen and I have been satisfied but very disappointed that they just keep replacement parts for 8 years and if you need repairs the technician have to search all over the country for a replacement part. Then we decided to have a winter home and they offer me an appliance package from Thermador that it was hard to pass. What a mistake! I think either Thermador make a incentive package out of the defected products or their quality has deteriorated so much that it has been a nightmare.I would never again buy Thermador, I am writing this the morning of December 26, 2019. I couldn’t cook my Christmas dinner because my very new oven wouldn’t work! During Thanksgiving week the double fridge drawers woke up my whole family with its alarm many times during the night and then stopped working for 3 day. These fridge drawers were repaired a few months after being installed.I called customer service and the agent told me that they were having an unusual amount of calls so he couldn’t set an appointment for me. They usually do because “I am an important customer because my whole kitchen is full of Thermador but not today. I guess everyone that used their appliances for the holidays found out they don’t work the way they are supposed to. Also my hood leaks oil, my dishwasher leaked water and my warming drawer doesn’t do a good job. Very disappointed customer. DO NOT BUY THERMADOR.
I have had a dishwasher ordered since December. It is July and still no estimated delivery date. The appliance store required that I prepay before I could order. This is just beyond ridiculous. I do not believe it could take this long to manufacture a dishwasher. My fear is that the company is collecting all this money and not delivering the goods with the idea that they will just go out of business and screw everybody out of their prepaid orders. My advice is to skip this company, and buy something else.
I purchased a complete set of Thermador appliances, double oven, microwave oven, dishwasher and refrigerator three years ago for my kitchen remodel. Every appliance has stopped working at least once. This Thanksgiving 2011, while cooking dinner for 25 family members, the ovens went out again. The oven and refrigerator has quit three times. They were repaired once under warranty and I have paid over 1600.00 for the other repairs. This stuff is junk. The service hotline was unhelpful and kept giving me service companies that would not work on their product anymore. I will never recommend or purchase anything from this manufacturer again.
DO NOT BUY THERMADOR PRODUCTS!!! I bought my expensive double oven, cost $8000, 9 years ago. I have had over 18 appointments to repair it. It has cost me thousands. The electronic panel is right under the burners. Moisture constantly seeps in and shorts it out. Electronic panels cost $1100. I had to pay to have this done 3 times! Eventually I had to have a metal part designed at a sheet metal shop in Fullerton, installed to deflect the moisture and to lift it up off the bottom. I havent had a problem since. Went to clean the glass inside the oven and it shattered. I called and they said I had to buy a whole new door at a cost of $1100! Are you kidding me? I HATE MY OVEN! Now I am having NOTHING but problems with my expensive refrigerator! I have spent thousands on it as well. The list is endless: compressor out twice, heater once, ice maker three times. Rubber seal twice, it goes on and on!!! NO one cares at the customer service desk. NIGHTMARE!!!
I just bought Thermador appliances (Refrigerator, Stovetop, Microwave Oven, Dishwasher, Exhaust fan for stovetop) from Best Buy and they delivered the appliances on Feb 06, 2016 for my newly refurbished kitchen. When they delivered the appliances to my house and I opened the boxes, I noticed the Refrigerator had a dent on the door and the Microwave Oven had permanent marker markings on the sides of the appliance. The Stovetop that was installed started making noises the first day it was installed. Every time I turn the stove on, there is a ticking noise that does not go away and stays on until I turn off the stove. All five burners make this noise. Along with the ticking noise, the stainless steel stove turned dirty yellow upon first use. If I cook anything for 5 minutes, the cooktop turns gets a dirty yellow stain which does not go away. I complained to Best Buy, however, no one helped me. I used a normal sized pan to cook my food and the entire stovetop around that burner turned dirty yellow! The color does not come off! Since I noticed all these problems I called Best Buy that I want to return the appliances because they are horrible quality and also I received damaged goods upon receiving the appliances whereas I paid for brand new items. I spend about $10,000 dollars on these appliances. I called Best Buy again on the 10th day of my purchase and said I want to return the appliances. I talked to several people from Best Buy, Sam, Stan, Richard, & Jason and they kept putting me on hold but no one was able to help me still. Eventually, they said they would call me back and no one ever did. Finally, after five days of continuously trying to contact Best Buy, I finally got to the manager and he said it has been more than 14 days to return the appliances because the 14 days return policy had been over. Just to mention, upon purchase, no one had told me there was a 14-day return policy. However, I was trying to reach Best Buy since day 10 and they kept pushing me off. Now I am stuck with appliances I don’t want because they came damaged upon arrival. Best buy manager said that he can change the refrigerator door but I do not want it anymore. I am trying to get in touch with Thermador but no one is able to help me. I am extremely upset! My Sales Number is ** and **. I need someone from Thermador to contact me so I can get things cleared up and I want to return the appliances back as soon as possible. Some of the appliances seem like they may have been previously used and returned by other people. I really appreciate the corporate office if they take notice of the used items and help me. I have not used any of the appliances besides the cooktop; the rest are still sitting there waiting to be installed. Can someone please help me for God sake?
Were on our second Thermador. The first one died several Thanksgivings ago, after several repairs in its first year. After much complaining to Thermador corporate, they agreed to sell us a new oven at a steep discount. I was sick of dealing with this thing, so I went for it. The discount was not steep enough, as now the new one isnt working either. The oven wont turn on. The fan comes on, we smell gas, but no heat (oh, and the light has been stuck on since a few weeks after purchase and the stove top burners have a habit of randomly firing the igniters, even when the stove is off). Absolute piece of crap! We were fooled by the neat looking speedometer thermometer, but you shouldnt be. These stoves suck, steer clear!
The worst service ever! My brand new range had a broken oven glass door and wont heat up to correct temperature. Didnt show up at scheduled time or later that day. Needed to reschedule. Finally came back and technician didnt know how to fix oven temp problem but did install new glass door. As temp problem still existing another appointment made with a request to have a different tech. Although appointment confirmed morning service call no one showed up. Customer support department worthless as only a call desk. Has no way to communicate with technicians nor can provide a COI as required in most apartment buildings in NYC. I will never buy another Thermador product again!
As with others, we spent a lot of money on this over/under oven. Looks nice but the internal design is awful. Its been 4 years now and we have had to replace the control boards 3 times already... and it died again a week ago. There is NO support for Thermador appliances in the Dallas area. Parts cost as much as the original unit almost if you can find them. I have replaced the faulty boards 3 times so far, but Im too tired to deal with this anymore. The analog & digital boards run about $600... 3 sets are enough for a new oven. Its a giant rip-off. Where is the quality design & service... missing totally. Were going to purchase a new oven now and it wont be Thermador. In 50 years, I have never experienced such poor design and support. I cant believe Thermador is still in business!
We bought a high-end double wall oven because my wife loves to bake. Within the first year, it started having problems and Thermador sent out multiple repairmen to fix it. All claimed it was fixed but the same problems returned. The door will not close and the motherboard is fried. This thing is a piece of garbage and any appliance store that sells it such as Spencers TV and Appliance should be questioned for having such garbage in their store.
Purchased over $50K in Thermador products in doing a renovation of our kitchen. The first 60 Range/Oven we purchased began failing (oven wouldnt light) within 3 months. After six service calls, new wiring, new motherboard, etc, still didnt fix the issue. Used social media to force Thermador to replace the range, now six months later, same issues with the new range. Customer service is awful, giving us a hard time about repairs because our purchase date (of the original range) is pre-warranty. DO NOT BUY THERMADOR!!! Choose Viking or some other manufacturer.
We purchased the Thermador refrigerator (Model T42BD820NS) in June 2014, yes, 2 months ago, and we are already experiencing problems. The ice maker completely broke and we had to wait a WEEK to get a service rep out to tell us they have to order a part and will come back in another week to fix it. So, not only does the product suck, because it broke after 2 months. (this is a $10K model by the way, would expect better performance) But, the service package is AWFUL too. We have always had GE Appliances in our past houses and have NEVER had a problem. This is completely unacceptable. Buyers beware of this very expensive piece of crap. I hope this helps someone make an informed decision because this has been a very disappointing experience. (I do like their dishwasher and cooktop, though, have to admit)
Do not buy Thermador! I own a 48 oven/range that was installed in 2007. I have rarely used it because it is a vacation home. Parts are no longer available (really?) and it looks like many people are looking for the same part...front wiring harness. This is a top of the line range that almost burnt the house down! I have spent $300 on service reps getting it diagnosed and hours looking for the part online because the service reps can only sell me Thermador parts which are no longer made! REALLY?? And, Thermador customer service...can only say sorry, we no longer make the part. Do they really think that I will buy another $12,500 appliance from them? Anybody know of any class action suits? I own 2 of these units and I am ready to take them down!
Since installing my new kitchen two months ago with the Thermador package of appliances I have had TWO major problems.1. After having the appliance taken out of the box and install (plugging in) my refrigerator, neither the fridge or freezer got colder than 70 degrees. I called Thermador and they walked me through steps to resolve the problem but to no avail. Thermador proceeded to refer me to two contracted repair services on Oahu. In the meantime I called the Authorized distributor (Servco Appliance Company) and informed them of the problem. They were able to expedite the service (and that was a week later). The service people came out and pushed the same buttons as well as read the manual, coming to the conclusion that my refrigerator was not working and would have to order parts...not having any idea what part! The next morning I got a call from the service company and was told the same thing and was told they would have the parts expedited and it would take 5 days to come in. In the meantime I called Servco and demanded that they get me a new (in the box) refrigerator. FIVE weeks later while waiting for my New refrigerator I received a call from ACE Appliance repair service saying they had just received the parts. I told them to forget it and contacted Servco for and update on my new refrigerator. Eight weeks after the service call, I finally got my new appliance. Now I have noticed a condensation problem on the side of the freezer door.2. Two and one half weeks ago my newly purchased Thermador built in oven stopped working. Error code E118. I must have used the oven 6 times since installing it, the same time as the original frig. I called Thermador again and was walked through the reset procedure (turn the 220 breaker switch off for 5 minutes then turn back on). This had no effect on the problem... it took 10 days to get a service man out here. Again we went through the whole thing again. He called Thermador and he was told E1108 meant a problem with the fan and it had to be replaced. I new that even before he walked in the door. Just google it!!!!!! I am told that NO PARTS are stocked in Hawaii and at a minimum it will take another 2 weeks before he comes out again....That is over a month without an oven and the clock is ticking on the warranty. I would not recommend this brand as they have no credibility.
We recently purchased a new Thermador oven Model MSD301WS/01. The user interface is horrible as it uses a display panel that is located about 2 feet off of the floor and requires you to swipe the menu options (like a smartphone) to make your selections. I literally have to kneel down on the floor to read the display and the text swipes so quickly that I have to carefully swipe word by word to find what I want to do. I never thought that turning on an oven to bake something would be so difficult and uncomfortable!The oven comes with WiFi capability that is impossible to connect to your router. It is so bad (not even sure if it works) that there are 3 places you have to get instructions to try and connect it - the user manual, a special home connect instruction pamphlet, and the app you have to install on your smartphone. After spending several hours trying to connect to my router (I come from the IT industry) I finally called customer support. We spent almost an hour trying to get it connected while he gave me step by step instructions from 2 different instruction sources. We could never get it connected so we decided I need a service call. He told me that if the problem is due to connectivity from my router then I would have to pay for the service call. My router works fine but I think that this is really poor customer service! I discourage anyone looking at new ovens to buy this one. I will probably send mine back.
Purchased a stove, dishwasher and refrigerator a few years ago for my principal residence. Do they look nice? Sure. It stops there. For my rental properties, they are too expensive to justify so I went with GE Profile. So far, all of my calls have been to repair the three Thermador products. No calls for the GE Profiles. Whats wrong with this picture???? Limited Warranty is for two years and most issues are after the two-year period. To top it off, Thermadors are only serviced by a few service companies who have you over a barrel. My advice would be to stay away from their products.
ProGrand oven and range - My wife and I bought this range that was a dream of my wifes, which now has turned out to be her worst NIGHTMARE!!!!!!!!! We had it installed in our remodeled kitchen. Looks really nice, but for the most part so does a bookend. The range part works well but the oven is a joke. The only thing it cooks good is our bank account...! The wonderful people at Thermador thought they had better way to light a oven, putting a delay of so many seconds on the gas valve, before it lights... Thus filling your oven full of gas and when it lights, which you have a 50/50 chance that it might, the door on the oven jumps out a bit as it is now lit... For how long it stays going is a crapshoot. If you are cooking a roast that will take over a hour, forget it. It wont relight to keep at temp. But the fun part of it is the temp on the dial shows whatever the temp you set it at! Open the oven and its around 100 degrees. NICE! It is what it is and thats JUNK!We had a company who was great repairing the Wonderful PRO-Grand, new name should be PRO Crap, but anyway the repairman found a missing part in the oven. Called the Company and got the repair tech on the phone, who stated, We do not sell that Part... Now three weeks later the repair company going to bat for me, got the people at Thermador to send us the part. Which in fact they forgot to install at the so-called Factory! Wonderful the problem fixed right?????? NOPE! Installed that part and the oven is still doing the same thing...! Anyway not wanting to see the Nice repairman again for awhile we started using the barbecue as our new oven!Works great keeps the temp right and it only cost $300.00. Pro Grand $6000.00 Plus.... Is there something wrong with this picture????? Now we are getting close to the end of this Saga.....! Bit the bullet and called the Nice Repairman. Was like old home week for the first three minutes, but he got the Pro Grand apart could not figure it out and call the Factory Tech. His name is Mr. Confused. Was told what was happening and he could not figure it out either.....! So the Nice Repairman asked, Why do we need this delay on the gas and light it like the broiler lights? which is right now... Doesnt figure does it.....! DA. Okay, now one great-minded repairman and one confused Factory Tech tells the Nice Repairman, You mean like the Older Pro Grands? Yes, the OLD ONE!!!!!!! Yes!!!! Factory Tech the Old tried and true Lights every time system. Okay, the Confused Factory Tech says... Now we wait!!!!!!! Nice repairman leaves to find out what he needs as far as parts and if he really is right... Yes he was!!!!! Mr. Nice Repairman got all the new stuff ordered and now I have to Open my wallet again to pay the Nice Repair Company...! The cost of this repair was Only $475.80 thus bring up the total cost of repairs to $1065.71 Pro Grands final repair total. Dont waste your time with Thermador thinking they will stand behind the product. The Fact is they wont....! For those of you who dont know this Thermador is owned by Bosch...... !
Thermador oven would not ignite. So I called Thermador Los Angeles to schedule a tech visit. The earliest they could come was 10 days later. Technician diagnosed the problem but did not have the part. 4 days later on 2nd visit he could not find the part and told me his company did not order it. 2 weeks later they told me to expect 3rd visit from same Technician. After waiting past schedule hours I decided to call Tech myself. Unfortunately poor guy felt bad because he did not have the part even for 3rd visit about 40 day after initiated service call. After I called company to complain I was told that the back ordered part is expected to arrive on April 1st. This would 3 month and no one told me about back order.Finally after talking with someone in charge I was promised a call back on Monday following week to work out some kind of deal with their partners that had that part. AND NO ONE CALLED, what horrible experience to wait 3 month for a part?? Needless to say I would never recommend the brand that I spend good money for and cant get customer service that is run by incompetent staff.
Multiple issues with a fridge, freezer and range. Spent close to $25,000 and not worth the money. They do provide a 2 year warranty and we had over 20 service calls between the 3 appliances. Theyre beautiful appliances but would never recommend Thermador and will never buy again. We have no faith in the products and were forced to buy an extended warranty that cost over $1,000.00 when the warranty expired. Youve been warned and hopefully you did you due diligence before buying these appliances - regretfully I did not.
I purchased my complete set of Thermador appliances back in 2006 and installed them in my new kitchen in 2007. In August of this year 2014 the fridge/freezer stopped working and after 2 months of dealing with their customer support and technicians it still doesnt work. I had to purchase a used one off of Craigslist as a temporary just to get by. After several phone calls and much complaining they finally offered to replace it but only if I could show my original receipt/proof of purchase, which of course I can’t find and the dealer is out of business. To add insult to injury I had to pay them just under $900 for labor to have their unqualified technicians come out 4 times. If I ever see the salesperson that talked me into this stuff I think I will punch him in the nose.
We purchased a high end Thermador Dishwasher 3 years and 10 months ago. We had a Whirlpool dishwasher that lasted about 12 years, which we replaced with a nice KitchenAid that lasted about 7 years. We then decided to upgrade to a high end Dishwasher in December of 2015. We purchased a Thermador Stainless Steel Dishwasher because we were told it was a much higher quality machine than the Whirlpool or KitchenAid and it would outlast them all. It lasted only 3 years and 10 months before the heating coil quit working last week. Now it only washes with cold water and grease or butter stays on the silverware and plates. I called our local repair service and they said to contact Thermador because many companies will go ahead and cover repairs within a couple years of the warranty expiration. I called Thermador and they will not cover the repair diagnostic visit nor the parts if it is the heat coil, which is what the error code says that it is. I asked the representative to ask the supervisor again and he said we would have to pay for the first repair visit and he may consider covering 50% of the part ($54) only. I was shocked that the Thermador quit working only after 3 years 10 months of light use by only 2 people (1/3 of the time of the Whirlpool that had heavier use at that time) and then that Thermador wouldnt cover the complete repair even when asked nicely twice. I wanted to make sure others were aware and warned before they pay extra for a Thermador Dishwasher that may only last a couple years.
Its the same problem that I have read about over and over and over again. My 10 year old Thermador 27 double oven has had most of the problems described in previous reviews. The incessant beeping where you have to shut down breaker for it to stop, the default codes that pop up because of the erratic sensors, and finally the control board going on the fritz and finding out that there is no way to purchase anew or even rebuilt one because it has been discontinued. So, basically I have to spend $5,000 for a new oven when I only need a $300 replacement part. However, the good news is that I wont have to put up with this nonsense any longer.
Thermador Double Oven C302US - Re-did the kitchen about 10 years ago with high end appliances. The Thermador Double Oven had been giving beeping sounds the past year, but now a F24 error comes on and the touch panel stops working. Have to shut the breaker off to stop the beeping. Called Thermador for the part (Glass Touch Pad 00368774) and they said it is discontinued. Told to go search ebay. No one has it. An almost $4,000 oven is now useless.
$14k oven external temp gauge broke a few weeks after short warranty. After multiple phone calls the company agreed to fix it. They replaced the whole computer panel. However, this was NOT the problem and the temp gauge was still broken. They argued this was not the original issue I called in about (it was). I even have the pictures I took when I initially called them that highlighted the broken temp gauge. Now they want to charge me $500 for the repair. I absolutely hate them. Will go back to less expensive appliances in the future or companies that back their products and services. Thermador was a HUGE waste of money.
I got so sick of it being fixed that I took out insurance with American Home Shield. Another disaster, it never kept the right temperature. The self cleaning was terrible, so now I said let me buy new ovens. When I went to buy new ovens, any brand they discontinued the size. Nobody was ever able to fix it so now I have one oven that barely works. Totally fed up.
I was led into buying a complete Thermador kitchen when I remodeled. I got top of the line Thermador Freedom tower fridge/freezer at $6000, 40 double oven at $3000, stainless dishwasher, forget price, and a range top. The stove top is the only one still functioning after three years. Every other unit has failed multiple times, both in and out of warranty. None of the issues were ever addressed by Thermador. The oven was so broken I got a credit card refund after a long dispute over 18 months after the purchase date. As a software engineer, I can tell that all these problems are from poorly written software. The behavior is characteristic of inexperienced developers and poor error handling. I contacted the Western US distributor director and suggested that he contact me if he wanted some objective feedback on the oven problems.I had a conference call with Thermador engineers and they truly had no idea how an oven controller is supposed to work. They claimed that the oven knew better what temperature to use than the user and as such it never got hot enough. Apparently, it second-guesses the cook and decides on some other temperature based on a combination of sensor readings.The freezer failed after about 14 months when the ice maker unit self destructed and was going to cost 40% of a new freezer to fix. I declared time of death on the fridge when the main controller ceased communicating with any of the peripherals. I had been diligently replacing them as they failed but once the brain died, it was over, too much money to replace. The dishwasher, well, who ever thought a dishwasher needed an on/off button? With Thermador, you need one so you can reboot it frequently when it locks up. I guess this is the least problematic unit. All the plastic gizmos for flip up trays, etc. have all broken off in the the first six months. OK, I lied, this ones still working. 1 out of 3, after a > $10K outlay. Never again.
Puchased my second set of Thermador appliances for a new apartment. The 36 Inch fridge with bottom freezer, came with a door does not close fridge overheats - so its turned off. This is NEW. Instead of giving me a new fridge, they have to repair. Also, after spending $26,000 on appliances you would think that the stainless steel used would match. Dishwasher stainless is glossy and rest of appliance stainless without shine; and it look pretty obvious. Customer service has nothing to say - they manufacture with different providers. What a waste of my money. I do not recommend this brand. Spend your money elsewhere.
I purchased a $6250 (current retail price) 30 inch freezer column in 2009 when we built our home. 18 months after installation, the ice maker ceased working. No warranty. The freezer failed to cool 6 weeks ago. The part necessary to rectify the problem was also not covered -- just like the ice maker. We opted not to replace the ice maker, which would have resulted in a $700 charge and we paid approximately $350 to repair the current issue. It is unacceptable, and really borders on criminal, to incur these types of failures on a unit this new at a high end price point. I have an old GE fridge/freezer in the garage that was only several hundred dollars that is still working after 25 years. Shame on Thermador. I have several other Thermador appliances that are suboptimal. The Bosch washer died last Christmas after six service calls. Dont purchase Thermador or Bosch. You will be sorry!
We purchased a Sapphire Glow dishwasher (DWHD651), the bottom rack is poorly designed, not structurally sound to hold the weight of the dishes, also the grid is too large so smaller dishes fall through. It buckles under the weight and the rollers come off the track. Also the cycle times are extremely long. I called Thermador and the customer rep told me they have received calls about the bottom rack problem. But the company has not bothered to correct the problem by redesigning the basket. Do not buy this dishwasher.
Bought 6 Thermador appliances 2012 for 20,000$ dollars. Family of 2 retired persons. We had one service on the dishwasher after 2 years. Just called for repair on the fan end the oven. They are asking 800$/parts and 500$/labor for a total of 1300$ +taxes. Find it outrageous, unreliable appliances. Given that we are good clients, we proposed they offer the parts for free we will pay the labor. After 2 calls, they asked for a written request which we did. After waiting 3 weeks for an answer, we called back to be told that the decision had been given the following week, but they are too busy to call their clients back. CONCLUSION: UNRELIABLE APPLIANCES / EXECRABLE SERVICE. CHOOSE SOMETHING ELSE.
When we renovated our kitchen 6 years ago we got all Thermador appliances. The dishwasher has since been replaced (after 4 years and over $1,500 in repairs that lead to nothing), the double ovens work but I cannot read the digital display that shows the time or timer. This has never worked since day one and no matter what the technician tried to do, it didnt fix the problem that area just flashes. My favorite (tongue in check) appliance by far is the fridge. After about 8 months the left door suddenly wouldnt close. We discovered the plastic sleeve that rolls in when closing and out when opening kept buckling and we would have to smooth it over with our hands in order to close the door. Try having anyone under 5 feet do that every time they open the fridge door. This has been repaired 4 times. Presently, the door does not shut again, the fridge turns off every night so we wake to a warm fridge and turns itself back on once we start opening the doors in the morning. The ice maker also stopped working last week. Technician is coming today. I cannot tell you how excited I am to hear what will need to be done and the cost to start the process to fix the problems.If history repeats itself, I will spend a few thousand dollars trying to repair what is wrong, only to discover that I will need to spend more money to try other fixes... since the ones we have done are not working. If you are thinking about buying a Thermador... DO NOT DO IT. Unless you are the kind of person that enjoys throwing money out the window and dealing with a service department that loses interest in you the second you buy their product.
I just purchased Thermador/Bosch appliances for our newly constructed/remodeled home. I regret it already. The refrigerator needed a replacement part at installation. This should have been a blazing red flag. 3 months after installation, the dishwasher stopped functioning. The part is on back order for so long that they are giving me a replacement, but it will take another 3 weeks. I will be out of a dishwasher for approximately 8 weeks. I have an infant meaning that I have to hand wash all bottles/breast pump parts non-stop. The customer service is garbage - the four (yes, count them, four) women I have spoken to are all rude and it appears that their employees take vacation every other day (at least that is what they have been attributing repeated lack of responsiveness). I hate this company already and now it looks like I am going to be dealing with them for years to come...great.
In 2003 we built our new home, and builder chose all Thermador appliances for the kitchen. We thought it was a reputable brand, and went along with it. These are the worst appliances we have owned. The electric smart zone stove takes literally hour to bring water a boil, wasting my time. I have two ovens, one of which lost its LED display and required replacement. The other does not heat the inside on BAKE, you have to put it on CONVECTION. On both, the door stopped closing completely after a while, requiring repair (even though we use the ovens maybe once every other week at maximum). The dishwasher, which does not clean dirty dishes (you have to prewash them) required repairs twice. The bottom dish rack is rusted and it costs ~$200 to replace it. All in all, I spent a ton of money on repairs, and every single piece has been a pain in the neck. I would NEVER EVER buy this brand again.
Thermador KBUDT4850A10 - We purchased this $7,000 refrigerator for a kitchen remodel. It came with a 10 year warranty. After a couple of months of use we noticed that the ice in the ice maker bin was melting and freezing back together in a large clump. We placed a service call only to be told that this refrigerator does that and there is nothing to fix- it is a design flaw. We have put up with this flaw for the 6 years we have owned this lemon having to dump the ice maker every couple of weeks. Now we have a dent in one of the stainless steel doors. I purchased a replacement door skin for over $700 and placed a call to the support line for help with the install. I was told the only help they could give me was a rate of $129 for the service call and $129 per hour for the repair. I asked for a schematic for the door so I could do it myself and they again refused to help or supply the schematic or repair instructions. I am sure I can figure out how to install this part without their help but it would have went a long way to show a little customer service.
We purchased a new Thermador range 1 1/2 yrs ago and have had serious problems from the very first time we used it. The major problem is Thermador has a Help number to call but it is staffed by many young girls who know NOTHING about the range. I asked over and over again to speak with a tech to describe the problems and it was not allowed. (My husband and daughter are Engineers.) One of these Help girls actually told me she did not think 2 hrs to warm an oven was excessive and also there is no reason why this range would not last us 4 or 5 years!The oven would not warm up beyond 100 degrees and I ruined many meals. The repairman finally came and had to replace a couple of parts. He had to replace the computer again (which is located under the griddle and on top of the oven/broiler). Common sense tells me that is not good. Six months later problems again, the computer had to be replaced a second time along with many other parts. This week when we tried to self-clean the oven for the first time the mechanism worked for about 30 minutes and stopped. The repairman came again. Cant find anything wrong, didnt fix the problem.For the $11,000 range I would not even think of purchasing a Thermador product again. As I said the biggest problem with the company is when the oven would not work and there were 12 people in my dining room waiting for a Christmas Brunch there was no one to call who knew anything about anything (morons answering the phone)! It is extremely important to have a Help number with a competent tech person on the other end every day all day because youll need it and Thermador doesnt have it!!!The CEOs name is not to be found anywhere so no letters to write either. This unit has too many functions operated by the computer which is located in an area between a HOT oven and a HOT griddle. A computer that does not work because of being excessive heat bound. Fighting a faulty computer in a $10,440 oven while trying to make dinner isnt worth it. My advice buy another brand without computers.
My husband and I purchase a stove and a hood from Thermador. We had been remodeling our home for the past two months. In the process we ordered a hood which in turn needed a motor. The motor was shipped to us, which seemed in good condition. It was not until we installed the motor it was not working properly. I called Thermador and spoke to Kayla who in turn told me if we did not have a technician install the product then they would not refund the motor. The motor was obviously defective and or broken before - how would we have known unless installing the unit. Now she stated her manager could do nothing for us. This was very upsetting after spending thousands on a stove and now this motor doesn’t work for the hood - its setting us back another $350 dollars. The customer service I received is poor! Inexcusable when Thermadors product was defective. And they do not want to reimburse or exchange the product. Fan motor **.
We purchased a Thermador T18IF900SP3 which is a stand alone freezer column in November of 2017. Periodically the high temp alarm would go off with readings around 29-33 degrees. It happened intermittently for several months so I finally called Thermador and connected us with their service representatives in our area, St Louis Appliance Repair. Visit one was exploratory and a new board needed and ordered. A week-ish later part comes in and we schedule a visit in a few days. The tech comes out for visit two but the board did not work properly so the old one was put back in and another one ordered. The freezer continued to work with an occasional high temp warning. Visit three is a mirror image of visit 2. Yes a second board that does not work at all apparently. The old one is put back in (again) and the freezer works as good as before. On visit 4 (Tuesday before Memorial Day) the new board is installed and supposedly works because the tech leaves it in but says the molex connector has a crimped connection. He takes pictures and sends to Mike ** at Thermador which is apparently Bosch or owned by Bosch. The next morning the high temp alarm is ringing away and the freezer is 60 degrees and food melted so we chuck it all out. It is now Friday - 4 days later - and Mike ** has apparently still not gotten back to St. Louis Appliance Repair. I have called both S.T.A.R. and Thermador every day since Wednesday only to get another person saying Im sorry... or Were sorry... but we are awaiting for a decision from the factory, we are awaiting a decision from management on replacement, we are awaiting on a decision from Mike **, we are awaiting a decision for the tech, we dont have your proof of purchase, No we dont need your proof of purchase as St. Louis Appliance Repair will send it, (said Nakia) but they did NOT so I sent it, We dont have the notes from St Louis Appliance Repair says Thermador... What a never-ending run-around of poor customer service and process malfunction. So if you ask me if you should go with Thermador for your new kitchen? I WOULD SAY NO!!! And Bosch? If you own Thermador then how about Bosch for your new kitchen? PLEASE DONT! We spent a fortune on all Thermador appliances. I would NEVER do it again. So here we are about 5 weeks after St Louis Appliance Repairs first visit with the freezer working worse than before I made that fateful call for help. Will it ever get fixed? Not sure. Our family is coming in for Memorial Day Weekend for Moms 90th Birthday and to see the new kitchen. Thermador your broken freezer will be propped open and shut off so it doesnt smell like mildew. Thanks.
We remodeled our kitchen before moving into our, new to us, but older home, back in 2014. When it was time to choose appliances, I was extremely excited, being a baker especially wanting to enjoy our new oven. The existing gas stove in the home was a Thermador so I thought I would get the same brand for the oven. The salesman wasnt very helpful so I just chose the double convection oven. Surprisingly, the convection aspect was not useful in controlling odors emanating from the oven, as I was told it would.Recently, the control panel went out, affecting many functions of the oven, the main one being only ONE oven would turn on at a time. The repair person explained the two year warranty and although this was a very expensive repair; upwards of $600, Thermador would not reimburse me for that reason. The oven also heats food is quite unevenly. Additionally we paid for the upgraded glider shelves, which do not glide appropriately. Then I discovered part of the shelf is bent, which explains the poor function, yet also indicates poor quality control. Overall, I am not impressed with this brand and would not recommend them.
We bought a house with Thermador appliances already in it. The oven has never worked properly and I have had it serviced 3 times. It never heats up to the set temp and does not hold the heat. It is impossible to cook with. Thermador was no help. In fact they stated that I would have to replace the whole unit as they are not separate units. So, instead of spending $1600 to replace the oven, I would have to spend $6500 to replace the whole unit even though the micro & warming drawer do work. Well, I will not replace it with Thermador and will never buy any of their products ever again. Awful customer service.
Spend over $5000 on a fridge, spend several hundred to repair it and waste numerous hours waiting for servicing. Spend months dealing with them on the phone listening to the same scripted responses from different people (since they will not discuss anything with you via email) and finally be told that for a few thousand dollars more they will replace the unit. AVOID this company at all costs.
When we remodeled our kitchen a few years ago, we purchased all new appliances from the Thermador/Bosch... We have really enjoyed the big fridge, the oven and microwave...the dishwasher has typical Bosch problems, including a sticking soap dispenser door and fast build up of clogging in the arms...but, its really quiet and great when its working properly. The glass cooktop blew its control module, and took some time and expense to have Thermador fix it... They brought the wrong replacement unit first, and only got the right one when we pointed out their errors and pointed them to the correct unit... It cost about half the price of the unit to fix...so, not so good on repairs. Overall, the appliances are lovely, quite pricey, and not nearly so reliable as one would like.
We spent a lot of money on a 6-burner, double oven range about $5,000, 15 years ago. One of the burners doesnt work and the oven on indicator light will not go off. When we called for service, we were told that parts would be difficult to find. The technician will charge $100 to come out and tell us that there arent any parts for this appliance because it is so old. Really, the customer service rep (and supervisor) think that this is completely acceptable since the lifetime of the appliance is about 14 years.Why pay so much money for something that will be replaced in that period of time? I have a Maytag washing machine that is 25 years old and the couple of times it needed repairs, I was never told that its so old, parts may not be available. Im writing to advise people that you may as well go with a cheaper brand that supports their product rather than a Thermador that considers their own brand disposable. Service is a disgrace. Save your money.
I am an experienced baker of 35 years. We finally finished building our dream house and purchased a Thermador double oven in 2015. It has done nothing but ruin everything Ive baked. Had the service repairman out and was told I wasnt using the settings right. After using the times and settings according to the manual, baked goods turned out worse!I have wasted countless hours and ingredients trying to make something turn out right, adjusting temperatures, times, settings and rack placements. What a huge waste of money and disappointment with this oven. If I could afford to replace it, I would. No help from store we bought it from or Thermador manufacturing. Do not buy a Thermador oven. I would never recommend any products from this company after this experience. For many years, I baked in cheap ovens with great results. This $1,800 appliance has ruined my baking ability since we are now unable to replace it with something that works and unfortunately, it is built into the wall in an expensive cabinet.
After being a happy Wolf user for many years, I purchased Thermador appliances looking to save some money. Big Mistake. The equipment didnt work since installation and was told I have to wait 3-4 weeks for a replacement to get to Puerto Rico from Miami. I called yesterday for an update and was told the replacement will travel from Germany to Miami, and then Miami to Puerto Rico. Who knows how long this will take?! I can still not review the range because I cant use it without the vent hood. Very disappointed and mad at myself for purchasing this brand.
We just replaced a 15 year old Thermador Professional gas range and oven with a new 36” Thermador Professional 366 range and oven. About $10,000 invested with installation. Most disappointed on delivery to find new oven door quite dirty in between the glass windows. Also oven temperature about 60-70 degrees hotter than the dial setting. The worst, however, is that a new oven rack that was soaked in water for about 6-7 hours to remove some baked on cheese has started to rust. Obviously there is no quality control at factory and cheap materials are used for components. We have had two Wolf range/ovens and have been most happy with them. I would strongly recommend anyone looking for a top of line range/oven forget about the Thermador line.
Thermador PRL366EG Pro Range - This was supposed to be my dream range. Saved forever to buy it. Replaced a GE stove, which we donated to the fire department, with this piece of junk! The FD is still using the GE and Ive had two burners repaired and Im on my 4th oven repair in 6 years. Same problem on the oven; cant seem to get it fixed. The oven heats up but doesnt maintain temperature. Bake a pie at 450 for 15 minutes then reduce the temperature to 350 to finish the baking and the oven turns itself off, though the indicator light says heating. The technician cant seem to replicate the problem. If I turn the oven off, wait five minutes and then turn it back on the oven will come back up to the correct temp. One suggestion made by the service dept was to just turn the oven off and wait and then turn it back on every time I needed to reduce the temp in a recipe. Really? I tried to stay calm and explain why that was not possible and why I should not have to do that with a range that cost me $6000!!! So parts have been ordered (again) but there is no guarantee that this will be the fix. And a phone call to Thermador did no good, either. Keeping my fingers crossed that these parts are the cure since my technician is working diligently to resolve this for me.Would never, ever buy nor recommend a Thermador again. It would be great if when someone does find a fix to a noted problem, they could post the solution. Might help others.
The overall performance was just as expected. It performed flawlessly. With its easy to use setup it was perfect for me and my family. There wasnt single thing on there that gave problems or had you questioning. Well for we paid for it its worth every penny we put down into it. I couldnt have been any more satisfied with it than I already am. I would recommend this brand to anyone and have already recommended to everyone I know. We have the stainless steel model with the side by side oven racks and double top cooking ranges and let me just say it looks absolutely stunning in my kitchen. Very sleek and modern look that would make any kitchen look spectacular. The overall size was just perfect for what I needed. Im able to cook multiple things at the same time without crowding my cook area. That goes for the oven and the ranges. If youre like me and have a big family and love to cook great food this is what youre looking for.
This oven has malfunctioned since the day it was installed. It doesn’t heat to the right temperature, it doesn’t maintain the right temperature and nothing ever cooks inside. When using the top oven simultaneously with the bottom oven, the bottom oven automatically cools down. It was finally replaced with a new one and the new one does the same thing. I am going to take the $8,500 loss, and buy a new oven. Also, I would steer clear of Thermador refrigerators as well. They are very poorly designed!
I live in British Columbia, Canada. I have a Thermador gas stove PRSG304 which I love when it is working. It is the heart of my house. HOWEVER it requires replacement of switches and the BK igniter about every two years at a cost of about $300. So now we are looking at about $1,000 in repairs since I have had it. I have sucked that up, but now I cant even get service. This year, the local authorized repair guy took three weeks to come out, said hed order the parts and then never came back despite phone calls. The second authorized repair guy could also not get out for three weeks and then did not show up for scheduled appointments twice, also despite calls and confirmation, so I gave up on him. I finally got in touch directly with Thermador Canada. They sent out a guy three weeks ago who said he would provide me with an estimate and order the parts. Still no estimate for the repair. They say hes coming back on November 15th but I have no idea of what its going to cost. I have phoned them 4 times and still nothing even though they commit to getting back to me. I have now been without two burners and my oven for several months. Why on earth would I ever buy Thermador again???? All I have is a beautiful piece of junk in my kitchen.
16k fridge that since day 1 the freezer doesn’t work. 9 months later. We still don’t know how to fix it. Stickers labels are peeling off. Small plastic is breaking. And the freezer part still doesn’t work. Customer service rep is rude. Tells me. I should keep getting the tech out and until he tries more than 5 times. They can’t with anything more. Each time you schedule an appointment it’s 2-3 months away. Waiting on my 4th visit now.
I first called Thermador to deal with 2 issues in my range over 3.5 months ago. Since then, their technician came to my house only 6 times and still hasnt fixed the issues. He promised to come multiple times but had to cancel because his dog wasnt feeling well (I cant make it up). And then he went on vacation, then he was too far, too tired etc. I called the company and was treated with disdain. They just suck!!!
My range is 4 years old. Finally called Thermador directly and they confirmed what the repair person told me. Once you turn the oven to a certain temperature you cannot adjust it, no turning down that pie thats been in for 15 minutes. You have to turn the oven off and let it cool down. And you cant leave the oven door open or else youll burn out the board that sits at the top of the opening. BIG PROBLEM for me. Cant believe that my $7000 stove doesnt have this feature. Love the burners though.
I purchased a Thermador fridge/freezer double gas oven, cooktop and dishwasher. At the 4 yr mark the double oven fried the circ board. I replaced it with another brand. The refrigerator lost the freezer part at 5 yrs. I paid the service company they sent out to replace compressor, lines. Took 3 weeks to fix. 3 months later it goes again. 1 week out for a service. He comes today and says theres a contaminate? Or blocked line? I said, Well lets evacuate and recharge it?? He did and the door wouldnt close. I mentioned it and was told oh when the freezer reaches temp the door will suction close?? Ok the door doesnt close and the light is on. I called service again. No clue if its going to reach temp because the door doesnt close. Ive lost all the food in the freezer twice now. And waiting a week for a tech is absurd. No clue if its fixed but now the door doesnt work.
I purchased a Thermador refrigerator, an oven and a refrigerated drawer to hold cans/bottles about a year and one-half ago. So far Ive had to have the Thermador repairman come to fix each one of these products. The drawer actually stopped working altogether. The repairman was scheduled weeks if not months ago. We confirmed with Thermador yesterday that he was coming as these items are in our beach house so we arent always there and need to coordinate to make sure we are there. The repairman called us this morning and said, I dont know why they scheduled me today. I only go to your town on Tuesdays and Thursdays. When the products work they seem fine, but you can definitely do better than this - especially given its reputation as a premium brand. Try Subzero or Wolf.
Thermador Commercial Grade Stove with 6 Burner Gas Range - We have had nothing but problems with this unit since we bought it many years ago. I originally spent around $8,000 for the unit with the overhead hood and fan. Since then I have invested a minimum of another $6,000 in what appears to be bi-annual service calls. The main issues are: 1. Thermador does NOT support their units. They push you to factory authorized service shops. Okay not a big deal - makes sense. 2. My local service rep knows less about the unit than I do (sad statement). The typical response is something on the order of I think its the ???? part. I have to order one - cant guarantee it will fix the problem until I install it. That will be $150 plus $400 for the parts - see you when the part comes in. 3. I have to go to the dealer in the next region and pay him extra travel time to get decent service. Typically he is so busy servicing other Thermador units that he cant get to me for 3-4 weeks. 4. I have replaced the same gas burner control 5 times - thats a $1,000 in parts only. They have now discontinued the part (dont know why, they were making a killing selling them). So the next time it fails I cant use the stove. 5. My most recent event deals with gas leaks at the burners. Im told they no longer make replacements. They dont even know if it can be upgraded. The service shop wont check to see if it is something simple like a valve stem nut or tightening or packing issue. They told me to call Thermador to see what can be done. Nice receptionist at Thermador but no information - cant get to the engineering department to ask intelligent questions.6. Its a shame because the electric oven has worked flawlessly.I think a class action lawsuit is a great idea.
Seven years ago we remodeled our kitchen. Sadly the only location we had for a refrigerator was a wide, but shallow space. Our appliance contractor recommended this Thermador refrigerator Model # KBUDT4875E01, which cost over $14K! Recently the evaporator coil began leaking. We called the Thermador service department who referred us to a local repair company (Alltex Parker) in the DFW area. The service man told us our refrigerator was old, although is has a 12 year warranty. The good news is the $300.00 for parts was covered by our warranty. The bad news is the service call costs us $1500.00 for 4 hours to replace the coil! The service man informed us he sees many issues with Thermador appliances and it is not uncommon for these refrigerator coils to leak. He said he would be surprised if our refrigerator lasted the length of our warranty. This experience has taught me to do more appliance research upfront and to rely on customer reviews!
I purchased my Thermador side by side refrigerator in 2010 (along with an oven and microwave wall unit). Recently, my refrigerator has started to malfunction. I called their customer service center and had them give me numbers (at least 8) for authorized repair centers. This proved useless as not even a Thermador certified technician will come to work on my unit. After several phone calls to the Thermador customer service number and reminding them that they guarantee after-warranty service anywhere in Canada, they asked me to provide photos proving that I, in fact, owned a Thermador fridge. This ludicrous request being met (who would waste time and energy calling a Thermador 1-800 number if they owned another brand), they now say that I actually need to call Whirlpool because it is Whirlpool that makes this Thermador fridge. This company is not even willing to take ownership and responsibility of their very own branded product. A product for which they put their stamp on and charge big money. They have passed the problem onto someone else!!
We have a Thermador gas oven with griddle top. The non stick coating peeled after one year. They refused to back the defective griddle. Customer service extremely rude! They put you through many tasks to get a file number. Fan on oven is also very loud. Save yourself some headaches, DO NOT Purchase Thermador!
In the evening (a min of two hours after I finished cooking) my husband and I hear the range making a ticking sound and trying to re-ignite. When we examine the range we notice that all the knobs are turned off but the stove is obviously leaking gas. Our stove is less than a year old and when we call customer service to report this emergency - the soonest they will send a technician is in a weeks time!
Found out Thermador doesnt make replacement parts for appliances over 7 years old. Self clean lock device isnt working and $160 service call to find this out. 13 year old range paid $2,600! I will NEVER recommend or purchase Thermador again. This range looks brand new. I ran the self clean twice a year. This is HORRIBLE customer service.
Have an ice maker problem. Called Thermador and they sent out their certified service tech a week later. They want $525 for a new ice maker that I bought for $325 over the net. Called Thermador to get info on removing special screws and they informed me that they dont provide tech support to homeowners, only service techs. Own a Sub-Zero fridge and the difference in their customer service and Thermadors is night and day. Will never buy another Thermador product again.
Our Thermador range needed parts and now we are finding out Thermador does not keep parts past 7 years. Apparently they dont expect their products to last more than 7 years or they just force their customers to have to buy another expensive item to replace it. Thermador should be ashamed of themselves and customers need to seriously think about purchasing a product they can not service after 7 years! We learned the hard way and now have to reinvest $12,000 for a range!
Bought a high end, very expensive, 30 refrigerator from thermador. Less than a year after installation I noticed a crack in the unit itself (not a drawer or accessory). I called Thermador, and the best they would do for me is send out a tech to patch the crack with epoxy. Now, a year later, the crack is wide open again and getting bigger. Terrible, flimsy product. Not worth the $$$ and Thermador does not stand behind their products or honor their warranty. Buyer beware.
The double wall oven is 2 years old and very seldom used. When using the upper oven, the probe light is on. I could not set the temp of the oven as the probe was primary. We never used the probe in any cooking process. An authorized tech for Thermador came and narrowed down the problem to be the probe element of the motherboard needs to be replaced. The cost range is between $525-775 to repair both. Thermadors response, It is not under warranty! The tech made an interesting observation when he opened the oven door. Is this a new oven or do you not use it much? Never again will we purchase Thermador.
Im on my 3rd Thermador full package in my 3rd house. Same pkg 3 times w/ some upgrades: Pro Harmony range, Pro fridge, Top of the line Sapphire dishwasher, microwave drawer, hood. $25k+. The 1st pkg was good. The 2nd pkg had issues w/ the range. Spark units were intermittently working. Repaired, worked fine. Dishwasher recalled electrical shocks or leaks. Dont remember. Microwave/dishwasher made by Bosch worked well.Now 3rd pkg. Fridge auto door assist mostly doesnt work. Replaced parts-still doesnt work. Gave up. The range is THE WORST! Ive had 12 repair calls.. 4 of 6 burners are blasting like blow torches since day 1. Theyre super loud. The repairman said tech support told him Its supposed to be like that. I appealed because my last one didnt do that. Thermador told me to convince the boss to help even tho she agreed that theres something wrong with it. This is ridiculous! After replacing almost every part in the range w/ 12 service calls. Countless phone calls! 4 burners still blast like blowtorches. I memorized the model # PRG366, $6300. Replaced regulator twice. Gas company checked pressure twice. I need a replacement, but Thermador isnt helping. The PRG366 at my last house on the same street didnt do this.
This combination steam oven unit is a wonderful idea with a terrible implementation. We have now had a repair person (from Mr. Appliance, who is AMAZING!!) come out 5 times; 4 times to do something about the leaking steam oven. They even had him replace the water bottle because the original design was faulty, but it still leaks. After using the unit about 20 minutes, water leaks out the bottom of the oven and drips onto the control panel of the warming drawer, which then shorts out. They have had to replace the control panel on the warming drawer twice. I called Thermador again to get the unit replaced. I had to send my original sales receipt (even though they already have it because I registered the product right after it was installed) and technician invoices from the repairs (even though the repair technician calls them every time to get their help to resolve the problem). After a couple of days, I get an email back saying they have made a decision, but they cannot relay the results of their decision via phone or email, so I call customer service and have to wait in the regular queue...after finally getting someone, I am told there is nothing in the file. I read her the email that was sent, she put me on hold again for probably at least 5 minutes and came back saying they made a decision that the unit works properly; even after I submitted the diagnosis from the repair tech showing that the unit is not working. The technician was out again today and took pictures and sent them to Thermador to hopefully get this unit replaced. After spending 28 minutes on the phone, I learned that they were not going to honor their warranty based on my request and now that the technician sent them pictures, it was being escalated to management for a review. The customer service person told me it would be another 24-48 hours until they make a decision. Will update when we hear.
I purchased this Thermador oven in Dec. 2005. On Thursday, Nov. 20th, my oven just stopped working. Wording in Red flashed across the panel F-24 Refer to Manual. My Thermador manual shows the reason for F-24/25 appearing means someone leaned against this panel for over sixty seconds. Ive never seen this before. We followed the directions to correct. Nothing happened. I called the Thermador Service ph#. Thermador sent a Technician Monday, Nov. 24th. This Thermador Technician said my manual is wrong, and the problem is the Cooling Fan broke. Then, Im informed it will be Dec. 11th, before this part is in. This is a part Thermador makes! I have a turkey in the fridge for Thanksgiving this week. I called Thermador today, and the person sounded she didnt want to speak to anyone. Very rude.
I have a Thermador Professional Oven purchased in 1995. It still looks like new but the broiler and the cleaning functions failed because of the failure of a 5 button switch on the stove front. This switch is no longer made. Thermador says they are not legally responsible to carry the part after 10 years. The fix seems simple but cant be done and Thermador has washed its hands of finding a fix. This seems to me inexcusable. Dont buy Thermador.
We had a Thermador double oven in our old house, dont remember the model number, purchased in about 2000. About 4 years into ownership we began to get fault codes. Cycling the power would restore operation but the problem became more frequent. Thermador were non-responsive to be polite about it. Im an electronics hobbyist so I pulled the circuit boards out myself. I found that they used a significant number of electrolytic capacitors. These are heat sensitive devices with a specified lifetime. I checked and found that 80% of the electrolytic capacitors were at end of life, displaying either a high esr or low capacitance or both. I replaced the capacitors with higher temperature rated and higher quality ones at a total cost of $15. Problems solved and unit was working well when we sold the house about 5 years ago. The local appliance repair shop wanted north of $500 to visit and replace the boards, no prizes for guessing what I told them.We purchased, maybe regretfully, a new model double oven Thermador for our new house that we moved into 5 years ago. Yeah, I know doing the same thing and expecting different results etc. It is now Christmas Eve and the oven has had to be re-started twice so far. Hopefully it will hang on and produce Christmas dinner before totally crapping out. I will then get into the guts and Ill bet every Christmas cracker in the house that I find the same issue as the previous model.I will not even bother contacting Thermador. What gets my goat is that if Thermador were to install higher temperature rated and better quality capacitors in the first place then a ten year life would be likely achievable. The cost, with their bulk purchasing power, would be probably less than $5 per oven. Ill lay another bet that their cost accountants are a part of the problem, shaving cents here and there and seriously compromising what, for the price, should be a rolls Royce oven.Tip for all, if the oven starts to exhibit strange behavior find a friend who is competent with electronics. He can probably fix it for you for a bottle of his favorite tipple and a few electrolytic capacitors at a cost of less than $20. Thermador, shame on you. Cheap electrolytic capacitors, poor thermal design and a ‘couldnt care less’ service attitude. I know I have the receipt for the current oven somewhere in my files, purchased from Trail appliances along with a five ring Wolf gas range top, Wolf wok burner, Wolf 60 inch external fan hood and a Bosch dishwasher. Just not going to go looking for it right now.
Our 13 year old Thermador oven relay panel caught on fire. After extinguishing the flames, I contacted a service company and Thermador. Thermador said replacement parts are made for ten years and when they are all sold, Thermador cannot supply parts for its broken ovens. I do not want to purchase another Thermador oven knowing after ten years parts are no longer made.
In designing our custom kitchen we wanted a separate refrigerator, freezer and wine cooler that is counter depth. Thermador was having a sale and we took advantage of it and saved several thousand $. They work great, stainless steel looks great and is easy to clean.
I recently purchased a Thermador dishwasher to replace my previous Thermador dishwasher that I had owned for approx 15 years. My previous dishwasher was a 48 decibel and extremely quiet. If standing next to it I could not hear it, in order to hear it I had to put my ear right next to it. This new dishwasher is very loud. It says it is a 48 Decibels, but it is so loud I can hear it in the next room. I am so disappointed in my new dishwasher. When I talk to the rep who sold me the dishwasher he said that I should not be able to hear it and that I should call Thermador and that they would take care of any issues I had. I called and they sent out a technician. The Tech YES indeed that is loud and not normal. He said that he was going to check with the company because it sounded like they did not insulate it or built correctly. He called me back a few days later to say that there was nothing he could do to my dishwasher and I should call customer service. I called customer service and they were NO help. I did everything that they asked. I uploaded a video with my invoice. They said I would be contacted. I was never contacted, I had to contact them several times. Finally one customer service rep said that they would replace my dishwasher and that I would hear back from them in 24 to 48 hours. They never called me back, after a week of waiting I called them, only for them to tell me that they were still working on it and they would call me back. Customer support has been giving me the run around since April 27th. The sad part about this is that the reason I bought thermador is because 15 years ago when I remodel my kitchen I purchased a matching set, 48 professional range, Hood and dishwasher to match. This is why I stuck with the same brand. But now I say buyers beware of this awful customer service. They will not be helping me with my dishwasher. Instead all they did was just extended my warranty. How is that going to help my loud dishwasher? I will not buy Thermador again and in the next couple of years when I upgrade my range and hood it will not be Thermador! They just lost a $20,000 sale!! I will for sure be returning this LOUD dishwasher!
Our home came w/a Thermador three piece microwave, warming drawer, and wall oven. The home is now 10 years old and the microwave has stopped working on the three piece unit. I was shocked to learn that you have to replace the entire unit for nearly $6,000 because they no longer make replacement parts. The rep on the phone was nice but explained that in order to keep up w/ technology they dont make replacement parts for things like microwaves. I guess when you buy a Thermador you should remember that it is unlikely you will get replacement parts and if you buy a three piece unit you will need to replace the entire thing if one component breaks. The rep seemed surprised that I would be upset about this... I guess they really only expect their products to last up to 10 years. That isnt very long for such an expensive high-end product. No more Thermadors for me or the new home I am building. Will call the appliance store and change my order stat!
I purchased a Thermador gas range years ago for $5,000.00 new. Since I purchased it has broken down at least 8 times. It was replaced new one 1 year after purchase because they could not fix it. The new one has broken down several times since replacement. The stove portion will not light. Thermador service fixed it recently, it lasted one day. Thermador service is the worst repair service out there. They do not care about their clients. They are rude. This range is a piece of crap. DONT BUY THERMADOR.
We purchased a group of Thermador appliances in 2016 when renovating our kitchen. We thought that we were purchasing high quality reliable appliances and we could not have been more wrong. Our double wall ovens have malfunctioned since 2017. Every year these ovens stop working and we have to pay out between $450-$900 each time even after these ovens were supposedly repaired before the warranty ran out. This year we had service on August 24 and paid $927.00 for a new relay panel. Now on November 18, 2021, within three months, we have to have both fans replaced at a cost of $864.00. The fans have already been replaced multiple times and contact with Thermador, the local rep and the retailer have produced either no response or sorry we dont deal with service issues. On top of this the Thermador dishwasher purchased at the same time requires a new motor. We have been careful with these appliances, do not put the self clean on too frequently and try to be mindful of usage. I would run for the hills before purchasing Thermador or any products under the same manufacturer-I feel we were sold a very expensive bill of goods-abominable!
I bought the stove in late August 2021, first call for service in September, November repair replacing 2 burners, gas jets, module, cover, ignition. One week later 2 burners not working, small oven not working. Large oven not heating evenly. Where I bought it said call Thermador customer service and request a new stove. Called Thermador, got a case number, supplied all info, received an email saying I need a tech to diagnose that it is not operating properly -- da dude! No techs in Vermont are even returning calls, the store I brought it from says Thermador responds to customers. Not them. Wow $12 --!3,000.00 for a new stove that is 3 months old and this is the service one receives. !!!Dont Do It. Buy Something Else!!! Terrible! Nothing good to say about this stove, the service and the company.
Double oven purchased in 2007 (ME302ES/01). The cooling fan caused an error code E118. Thermador has no one in my area to fix it. They will not give me the information to correctly diagnose the issue. I paid a lot of money for this bucket and the Thermador National Parts Center (877-731-8081) marks up the price of the part to above retail. When confronted the sales person said, ** you, and hung up. I think Ill yank it out and you fill in the blank with your colorful mete-fore. I ordered a cooling fan from Bosh (800-944-2904) for $116.00 and will change it out once. Im thinking about a class action law suit if nothing is done.
It's a perfect size!! You can hide it if you want and it don't take a lot of space! It doesn't make a sound and I love the design. The colour is black. It make my kitchen the best. The performance is the best! IT never stop working and it is always cold. It doesn't drop any water. It's easy to clean. It's a lot of space so it can have much in it! The products appearance is great. It look great and it fits the kitchen. Never been more satisfy in my life. It makes my kitchen whole! I can recommend it to other people. It makes my day and I can't believe I didn't do this earlier. My kitchen had improved to the best since I bought it!
My oven stopped working and tried to get Thermador tech to come out. Even though we had agreed on a time they missed the appointment and then tried to blame me. They came out and the tech after 2 hours said he couldnt figure out what was wrong and would come out with his manager. But then no one followed up and I was told that it would take more than 2 weeks before they could get back out again with a manager. Nearly 7 weeks without stove working and Thermador doesnt seem to care. This is not the first issue in dealing with repair issues with Thermador. The customer service manager actually had the nerve to say to me, Your unit is out of repair, as if to say, since its not under warranty who cares what happens.
Love our 36 inch wide counter depth refrigerator freezer. Very well built and heavy, compressor is quiet when running and exterior finish is excellent. Well lit inside and thoughtful side door storage. But due to depth, interior size is compromised.
Dual Oven Now has broken down 3 times since 2001 - that is a long time but we rarely use the oven! They cannot help in anyway. Shame on them - let’s start a class action lawsuit!!!!



